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NTK for failing to display a ticket for free 30min parking
Slumberished
post Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 10:40
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Hello all,
The driver parked at a car park which looks part of a Tesco Superstore in Reading. However this small section of the car park (Google shows as Public Car Park) has free parking for 30min with a ticket displayed from the machine which the driver failed to notice (clear signage). The driver parked for about 25min and shopped at Tesco. Now a company by name Bank Park Parking Management has issued a parking charge notice demanding £60 (if paid within 14 days and notice was issued with 7 days of parking) stating the reason as 'failure to claim free parking session'.

Please see attachment image for the location and parking place.

The driver doesnt have the Tesco receipt anymore but has the credit card statement to prove that the purpose of parking was to shop in Tesco. Please can you advise on how to go about this? Thanks in advance.

Edit: Letter received is NTK not PCN, corrected now.

This post has been edited by Slumberished: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 20:36
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post Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 10:40
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Redx
post Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 10:45
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Post redacted pictures of both sides of the PCN, plus pictures of the signage too

Complain to Tesco if they are the landowner ? With proof of patronage, asking them to cancel the PCN, giving them a copy of the PCN ( not the original )
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Slumberished
post Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 11:14
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Thank you for your reply.

Please see the attachments. The picture of the signage the driver took was vandalised but there are 2 more which are not vandalised.
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Redx
post Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 12:36
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Landowner cancellation is your best option, plan A, nothing beats plan A
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Slumberished
post Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 13:31
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Thank you again.

The driver visited Tesco store with proof of shopping and spoke to the store manager. They were sympathetic and added that many customers were caught out by the changes that was introduced not long ago. However, the manager claimed that the Council owns / manages the parking spaces now (not Tesco) hence the driver need to speak to the council.

Not sure if this is true but there is no council signage anywhere in the car park and the signage itself mentions its private land happy.gif
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Jlc
post Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 14:35
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Have a read Here.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Slumberished
post Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 15:09
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Thanks Jlc appreciated.

Thanks Jlc appreciated.
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andy_foster
post Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 16:10
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Assuming that we are talking about the small car park on the Oxford Road side of Tesco, that has f*ck all to do with the council. It is "managed" by Bank Park (as per their signs) and owned variously by Johnson Fellows and Harlock Holdings (according to a witness statement by Bank Park, director - at least one of those statements would appear to be materially false).

You will presumably be aware that I was recently taken to court by the same PPC for the same utterly absurd reason and had their claim dismissed without bothering to cancel the holiday that I had effectively booked for 2020 and attending the hearing. The bottom line is that there is no basis in law for such a charge. If it gets as far as court, I would be more than happy to help you with a defence. The remaining issues revolve around whether and if so how best to minimise the hassle from their attempts to extort money that you clearly do not owe.

Most victims of PPCs are looking to put the matter to bed asap without actually paying the PPC (N.B. forum rules prohibit calling them crooks, thieves, con-men or other such terms, regardless of how accurate they might be). The PPCs are interested in coercing their victims into paying them money, with seemingly little to no regard for the facts of the case or the applicable laws.

I personally have little interest in playing their silly little games, or expecting an honest or fair outcome to any given "appeal". In my case (the one that has been heard and dismissed) I did not "appeal" as their charge was clearly an absurd penalty with no basis in law. In his witness statement (which wasn't a witness statement, but I digress) their director claimed that if I actually believed I had a defence, I would have appealed. To my mind an appropriate appeal would consist of exactly 2 words. They know that you were parked for less than 30 minutes, and only the most extreme recklessness could prevent them from knowing that there can be no commercial justification for such a charge in such circumstances (no requirement to display a ticket as everything is dome by ANPR). If they still try to extort money from you knowing that, lodging an appeal telling them what they already know would be logically pointless.

Conventional wisdom says to try to get the charge dismissed via any and every legal means possible, starting with the landowner/occupier/shop, appealing to the PPC, then appealing to the applicable "independent" appeals service. Part of this wisdom is predicated on the possibility/probability that the charge might actually be legally enforceable, but that some mitigation that would not help in court might help earlier in the process. That should not be a concern in this case.

However, if the charge gets cancelled at any stage, that is the end of the matter.

Conventional wisdom also says that a reasonable person would seek to engage with these absurd charges. I prefer my own wisdom. There are 2 danger with appealing - you might inadvertently identify yourself as the driver (if you were the driver - and that would be a very minor issue in your case), and reasonable buy naive (to the workings of the PPC model) people expect to be treated fairly and honestly, and often take a rejected appeal as an indication that the rejection had something to do with the merits of their appeal, as opposed to the PPC simply asking itself "do I still want my victim to give me money". If you go into the appeals process with your eyes open, that should not be a worry though.

Bank Park are members of the IPC who appear to be on a mission to make the BPA seem entirely fair and above board by comparison. Conventional wisdom says that their "Independent" Appeals Service is anything but. If you want to appeal to them anyway (some appeals are upheld) you would need to appeal to Bank Park first and wait for them to reject your appeal. Obviously, if they uphold your appeal that is the end of the matter.

The obvious issues (beyond the standard template appeal issues) would seem to be (in no particular order other than the first one) -

there is no commercial justification for a punitive charge for failing to obtain a free ticket which is not required to be displayed, where their system knows your VRM, time of arrival and time of departure, and the charge for breach must therefore be an unenforceable penalty;

Bank Park do not issue any notice bearing the title "Parking Charge Notice", PCN, or anything approximating these - they issue a Notice to Keeper. The agreement with the landowner only permits them to sue for unpaid "Parking Charge Notices";

The agreement with the landowner does not permit Bank Park to issue a Parking Charge Notice for failing to claim a free session/obtain a ticket/whatever (which is seemingly ok as they do not issue Parking Charge Notices) - although, as an aside, it does permit/require issuing Parking Charge Notices for parking without clearly displaying a ticket - which is not a term of the offer made/communicated to the driver by Bank Park;

Bank Park's agreement with the landowner specifies that the first 30 minutes of parking is free, but does not make that contingent on anything (such as obtaining a free ticket) or permit Bank Park to make it contingent;

(unless you have identified the driver) Bank Park have taken it upon themselves (for a change...) to make the invitation for the keeper to avoid being held liable for any charge owed by the driver contingent on declaring that the Notice to Keeper has been passed to the driver, rendering it non-compliant with PoFA 2012 (IMHO);

there are probably more, but my sense of whimsy is being overwhelmed by my sense of DILIGAF.


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Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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Slumberished
post Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 20:04
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Thanks Andy, appreciated. Yes its the same car park with entrance at Oxford Rd. Shame that Tesco either deliberately or unknowingly redirecting all those affected drivers to the council who clearly has nothing to do with the car park.

The driver has not been identified. Would this be an appropriate email to fire in the first instance?

I'm the registered keeper of the vehicle xx responding to your notice to keeper dated xx. The registered keeper was not the driver.
The car park in question is ANPR controlled as evidenced from your letter showing the images of the car entering and leaving the premises at precise times.
The total duration of the car being parked as stated in your letter is 27 mins which is well within the 30min free parking allowance, as stipulated in your contract with the landowner.
Therefore there is no commercial justification for a punitive charge for failing to obtain a free ticket which is not required to be displayed when your ANPR system knows the time of arrival and time of departure which renders your charge for breach as unenforceable by law.
I expect you to respond to each and every point that I have raised in my appeal with satisfactory evidence failing which I dont expect to hear from you again other than to confirm that (i) there will be no further action and (ii) my records have been deleted from your systems.


This post has been edited by Slumberished: Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 20:09
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andy_foster
post Wed, 29 Jun 2022 - 20:51
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If the RK was not the driver, that seems fine to me, albeit as previously stated my experience in writing "appeals" against absurd penalty charges when the appeal pretty much only tells them what they already know, is somewhat limited. Others may have more meaningful input.

N.B. In this case, as previously stated, the driver's identity is a relatively minor point - the closest that Bank Park got to commercial justification was stating that the signs state that a ticket must be obtained for 30 minutes free parking. I like to include all the points that the Claimant fails on in order to illustrate that the claim is vexatious and the Claimant's behaviour utterly unreasonable/criminal, as opposed to an arguable case that could potentially have gone either way, but if the RK was the driver I would absolutely not claim otherwise (I might put the Claimant to proof, but I would most definitely leave the lying to him).


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Andy

"Whatever the intention of Parliament was, or was not, the law is quite clear." - The Rookie
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Jlc
post Thu, 30 Jun 2022 - 07:48
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Just to note that Bank do appear to be litigious - so do expect the long haul of various 'debt collection' trivial, escalating amounts and the eventual LBC & claim.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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snath
post Wed, 20 Jul 2022 - 20:53
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Hi guys, I have been slapped with an NTK recently for the same offence as well (29 mins in the car park without a displaying a valid ticket). I intend to fight this all the way, so will be looking for help from you guys as I get going.

Firstly, slumbershed, have you had a response to your email to the PPC?

I already called the Tesco - they are useless, won't even bat an eyelid, asked me to appeal angry.gif
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Jlc
post Wed, 20 Jul 2022 - 21:15
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QUOTE (snath @ Wed, 20 Jul 2022 - 21:53) *
Hi guys, I have been slapped with an NTK recently for the same offence…

It's not an offence. Ok to ask OP questions about their ticket but if you want advice then please create a new thread.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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