Lambeth rejected 2x challenges - (Hammersmith + Fulham accepted though!) Options

[adeelhussain1987]

Hi,

I have attached scans of 2x PCN’s from Lambeth Counsel and 2x Lambeth Counsel appeal rejection letters as well as DVLA confirmation slip (both sides scanned).

Story: my 17 year old brother in law swapped his bike with someone else (straight swap) in December 17 with someone who had lost the log book of his bike. He applied for a log book (which takes circa 6 weeks, £25 cheque was cashed by DVLA on 9th Jan 18 by DVLA– I don’t have a copy of the cheque though) and before it had arrived he sold his scooter to someone else without the log book. He then received the log book probably the first week of Feb and a few days later resent it to DVLA for new keeper details.

During the time he had the log book on his name, assuming it was a week or two, taking into account royal mail post times, few days he had it and DVLA processing it he received 3x PCN’s, 1x from Hammersmith and Fulham and 2x from Lambeth. I wrote to all three counsels with a copy of the receipt showing sale and sale date, a printout of my bank account showing a £150.00 payment being received from the buyer on 2nd of Jan 18, as also mentioned in the letter along with the same letter to all three counsels, just changing PCN details and counsel address, one of the letters which I wrote is below.
Hammersmith and Fulham wrote back and said they accept what we say and will send the PCN to the rightful owner.

Lambeth have rejected the 2x challenges based on “The current information does not give a clear indication of sale” and want a letter from DVLA confirming the transfer of liability before 28.03.18. I have attached the DVLA slip I received which is printed on 14.02.18, PCN contravention was on 07/02/18 and 08/02/18.

I think the receipt and bank confirmation is sufficient evidence for them to discharge this but for some reason they are being arses, can you tell me if the DVLA slip would suffice or would I need to get an actual DVLA written letter?.

Please assist.


http://docdro.id/xtAjt6o - DVLA Slip
http://docdro.id/FtDJH7m - bank confirmation
http://docdro.id/ZTrNGR3 - 2x Lambeth PCNs
http://docdro.id/f2Um7Wz - 2x Lambeth replies
https://ibb.co/ipuvHx - Receipt

Letter challenging PCN:

Lambeth Parking Services
PO Box 4525
Worthing BN13 1XT



19/02/2018

Dear Sirs

Re PCN: LJ08595054 re Reg No LK60 CXA

I wish to make a formal representation for this PCN which was issued on 15th February 2018 for a contravention occurring on the 8th of February 2018 on the grounds that I was not the registered keeper or owner of this vehicle at the time of the contravention occurring.

Please find attached a copy of my receipt confirming in which I had sold this vehicle to XXXXXXX residing at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX on 1st of January 2018 at 18:45. Please also find attached a printout from my bank account showing £150.00 being paid to my bank account as part payment at the sale date.

DVLA have recently been sent the V5c form to notify them, this was due to DVLA taking 6 weeks for a replacement V62 application.

As I ceased to be the vehicle owner as at the 1st of January 2018 date please confirm cancellation of this PCN under my name and please issue it to the rightful owner as above.



Kind Regards
Ibrahim Hussain
 

This post has been edited by adeelhussain1987: Mon, 19 Mar 2018 - 14:04

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[PASTMYBEST]

If you can get confirmation from DVLA that you/ your BiL was not the owner on the contravention dates, send it to them. If not the acceptance by another council would be persuasive but not binding on another adjudicator

[stamfordman]

I would edit out the buyer's details.

[adeelhussain1987]

Edited. Thanks for pointing that out.

Would DVLA issue anything other than the slip they normally send?.

[Neil B]

Edited. Thanks for pointing that out.

Would DVLA issue anything other than the slip they normally send?.

In a recent case 'berries', it took months to get DVLA to confirm in writing the date at which dealings with them
(in your case V62) commenced.

That said, 'berries' was none too savvy.

--
I wonder what Lambeth would do in the face of formal reps identical to your challenge.
A refusal in the same words to that would effectively be an accusation of lying: This not being a matter of
opinion on, say, signs but a matter of fact.

[adeelhussain1987]

Hi all,

thanks for responses, i spoke to dvla, they said it will take 2 to 4 weeks for a letter to be received, even then it will show the date they received the green slip as opposed to the date of sale which was written on the green slip, so similar to the DVLA slip in my first post.

I have drafted a letter which i will be sending soon, could someone have a look to see if its okay or if i should add/remove anything.

Thanks

Lambeth Parking Services
PO Box 4525
Worthing BN13 1XT



21/03/2018

Dear Sirs

Re PCN: LJ08595054 re Reg No LK60 CXA

I refer to your letter dated 13th March re the above PCN Number with your reasons for rejecting the challenge. You state the current information given does not give a clear indication of sale. If you look at the receipt, which is a document which gives written acknowledgement that I have swapped my bike with xxxxxxx xxxxxxx as at 1st of January 2018 at 18:45. As myself and xxxxxx signed this at the time of the sale it is an agreement which has been made. I further provided proof of the partial payment made by bank transfer which shows on my bank as the 2nd of January 2018 as the transfer was made at 18:45 which the bank classifies as outside of business hours, hence it shows on my statement the following working day.

Nether the less, I have contacted the DVLA for a letter confirming the transfer of liability, DVLA’s processing time is two to four weeks, which automatically falls outside of the deadline of 28.03.2018 as specified in your letter. DVLA have mentioned that they will only be able to put the date on which they received the V5c “Green Slip” from me as a date on the letter.

I have also attached DVLA’s acknowledgement slip, dated 14th February 2018, stating they have updated their records to the new keeper.

I wish to request more time for this PCN until I receive a response from the DVLA. If no further time is given I would appreciate it if you send me the details of how I can appeal this further in your next letter as I will be taking this to an adjudicator as I was not the owner of the vehicle at the given time and have the proof of this and have provided this to you.

At this stage I also will point out that in addition to the two PCN’s received from Lambeth counsel, I also received another one from Hammersmith and Fulham. I challenged this decision using exactly the same proof which I sent to Lambeth and Hammersmith and Fulham counsel accepted my challenge. As to how Lambeth counsel does not classify my proof which “does not give a clear indication of sale” is beyond me. I will also be providing this to the adjudicator if necessary.

Kind Regards
Ibrahim Hussain

[Neil B]

Well it sets you up nicely for adjudication if that's necessary: Seen to be trying to resolve.

but it's 'Nevertheless', one word: Your 'nethers' are somewhere else!

[adeelhussain1987]

Well it sets you up nicely for adjudication if that's necessary: Seen to be trying to resolve.

but it's 'Nevertheless', one word: Your 'nethers' are somewhere else!

I think i have lost them! ill amend and get that in todays post.

Thanks!.