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Going to court no insurance - severe mental health issues - social anxiety, BPD, PTSD... Can someone reprosent me?, Threads merged x4
dddddd
post Sun, 10 Nov 2019 - 21:05
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So today I got stopped by the pod.

I'm a car trader, I buy and sell and do up cars, picked a car up from auction, got stopped by the traffic pod as car wasn't on the MID

Told them I was a trader etc - they asked me to show them my traders I logged in and couldn't get my certificate they said they would give me the benefit of the doubt... They've taken all my details and told me they would come round and see me if theirs an issue.

I asked about the 7 days to produce and she said "yes that's what I want to give you but I don't have any forms on me"

Now I've got home I've found out my traders is out of date by 2 days, so I'm going to call my broker tomorrow and renew it...

Which I will do, and I'll add this car and all my other new ones on to the MID

My question is, can they come back and charge me as technically I wasn't covered?

I genuinely was unaware typical bloke I don't check my emails enough or bank statements! Too busy working!

They let me keep the car and didn't give me a single piece of paper or anything to take with me?

Can they come round tomorrow and charge me historically?
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post Sun, 10 Nov 2019 - 21:05
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dddddd
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 00:53
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 27 Nov 2019 - 17:20) *
I meant the intent of any representation (At all) rather than them instead of the OP.......

It’s not clear if the OP wants to go hardship or just accept the disqualification.


Sorry yes due to the anxiety - I have some very weird things, I only leave the house if certain things are met and I will only go to places "within my safe zones" it sounds stupid but it is what it is...

I'm doing CBT to help with it...

But yes attending I would be looking for hardship as I need to get to my appointments at the hospital and public transport would really destroy my mental state...

I have about 15 years worth of medical records showing my conditions but I guess I'll have to tough it out and go to court, I'm just scared.

I don't sleep well usually get off around 5-6am when the sun comes up due to issues... so if they tell me to be there for 8am for example thats going to be really hard.



This is why I work for myself - because I can control the situation, I just work in my garage and have people come to me...

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Logician
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 01:27
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I would be wary about pushing the mental health angle too strongly or it may raise the issue of whether you should really be driving at all.


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NewJudge
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 08:31
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QUOTE (dddddd @ Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 00:53) *
... so if they tell me to be there for 8am for example thats going to be really hard.

The earliest you will be asked to attend is 10am. If you are running late ring the court and tell them.
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mickR
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 08:46
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QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 01:27) *
I would be wary about pushing the mental health angle too strongly or it may raise the issue of whether you should really be driving at all.


Surely that would depend on wether the condition is reportable to dvla or not.

This post has been edited by mickR: Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 08:53
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Logician
post Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 09:56
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QUOTE (mickR @ Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 08:46) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 2 Dec 2019 - 01:27) *
I would be wary about pushing the mental health angle too strongly or it may raise the issue of whether you should really be driving at all.
Surely that would depend on wether the condition is reportable to dvla or not.


Mental health issues tend not to be vey clear-cut, the OP might find himself involved in a lengthy assessment process by raising the issue himself when the medical professionals who are aware of his condition have not advised reporting it to DVLA. I am not advocating failing to report a condition that he has been advised is reportable.



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dddddd
post Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 00:33
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So in Novemeber I got stopped for no valid insurance - long story short I have a policy thats valid, with the certificate.

I got a big pack of letters in the post with the penality notice and 21 days to reply.

Checked the insurance and the 6 points I got in the summer 4 months earlier are not listed on my policy (I know this because I didn't tell them not that its actually visible on the cert)

I have to plea not guilty, guilty or expire it after 21 days for summons...

Do I plead not guilty send in the certificate and they will likely then do an investigation to valididate whether the policy is real and was active etc?

Obviously the police will be aware of the points - and I assume the police will look for any reason to make sure the ticket goes through and invalidate due to the points not being declared?

Or would they just accept the cert on face value, check it was an active policy and write it off?

I'm hoping its the later because I'm looking at a ban otherwise!!

Has anyone got any experience of this?

(car that this is about was sold a while back, I'm back on my daily driver which is all above board and legal)
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BaggieBoy
post Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 01:26
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This case I presume?

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=131812&hl=

One case / one thread.
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Dwaynedouglas
post Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 07:34
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QUOTE (dddddd @ Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 00:33) *
So in Novemeber I got stopped for no valid insurance


Is this when your policy was two days out of date? Did the insurer agree to backdate?

QUOTE (dddddd @ Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 00:33) *
Checked the insurance and the 6 points I got in the summer 4 months earlier are not listed on my policy (I know this because I didn't tell them not that its actually visible on the cert)


What six points? Did you have six points and not tell the insurer at renewal?



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cp8759
post Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 14:57
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QUOTE (dddddd @ Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 00:33) *
Checked the insurance and the 6 points I got in the summer 4 months earlier are not listed on my policy (I know this because I didn't tell them not that its actually visible on the cert)

Have you now informed the insurance company?


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Logician
post Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 17:40
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Back in November you said you had 9 points. You say you now have a penalty notice, is that a single justice procedure notice or the offer of a fixed penalty?

This post has been edited by Logician: Sun, 12 Jan 2020 - 17:45


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dddddd
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 17:21
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OK guys so I got my charge sheets through the post...

LOTS OF ISSUES

The date of the offense on the charge sheet for no insurance was 11th of November - I was stopped on the 10th of November, insurance was taken out on the car at 4am on the 11th of November.

They came around on the 12th at 3:15pm which is when I signed the tablet device shown in the photos. - and the officer clearly states that it was on the 12th also seen in the photos attached but the time recorded against the signature is 11th november 15:10

Where do I stand on this?

Should I plead not guilty by post and send in the certificate?

Should I go to court? Will it get thrown out due to the discrepancies in the times printed?

Can clearly see she states it was issued on the 12th, but next to the signature it says 11th?

Insurance was valid as of 11th of Nov at 4am, so their was insurance when she "checked" on the 11th in the afternoon and I have the certificate
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666
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 18:21
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Although the 3rd attachment gives the incident date as the 11th, the 2nd clearly shows it as the 10th. So there is an obvious error, which presumably (others will advise) could be easily corrected.
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dddddd
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 18:31
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QUOTE (666 @ Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 18:21) *
Although the 3rd attachment gives the incident date as the 11th, the 2nd clearly shows it as the 10th. So there is an obvious error, which presumably (others will advise) could be easily corrected.


I thought that once issued they cannot change dates and times?
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The Rookie
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 18:32
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An easily explained Typo, you’re not going to get a not guilty verdict on that basis I’m afraid.


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dddddd
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 19:04
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It wasn't a typo, a ticket was not issued on the day of the stop, she told me she'd give me "the benefit of the doubt"

No ticket was issued

The original stop was never recorded by her she told me she didn't have her device on her at the time so couldn't issue a 7 day producer

Instead she wrote some notes and sent me on my way...

The ticket was issued at a later date whens he got her hands on one of those tablets and she came to my home...
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southpaw82
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 19:31
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QUOTE (dddddd @ Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 19:04) *
No ticket was issued



QUOTE
The ticket was issued at a later date whens he got her hands on one of those tablets and she came to my home...

So which is it?

The charge can be amended and probably will be if it causes you no prejudice. Since you seem to know the allegation you’re facing I don’t see what prejudice you would face. Unless I’ve misunderstood what date is wrong?


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The Rookie
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 19:35
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Whether it is or is not a typo (and I think it is) I still don’t believe it will help you.

You were driving while uninsured, you’ve been charged with that offence and justice is about convicting the guilty and acquitting the innocent (or those that shed reasonable doubt), neither of those are satisfied by a minor paperwork error.


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NewJudge
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 19:48
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If you plead Not Guilty the prosecution will ask the officers involved to attend court and give evidence in person. When they do so they will provide the court with the correct information. That will show that you were stopped on 10th November and that no insurance was in place.

Placing a vague hope of acquittal based on minor errors in paperwork is not a good idea. I've lost track a little of how many points you have currently but I believe it to be at least six. Six more for this latest offence will see you liable to disqualification under the "totting up" procedure. You can avoid this is you can show that "exceptional hardship" will follow for you or others if you are banned. You may do better to concentrate on this rather than rely on discrepancies in paperwork. What hardship that is "exceptional" (that is, over and above that which would affect anybody who was banned) will follow if you are disqualified?
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The Rookie
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 20:34
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QUOTE (dddddd @ Sun, 10 Nov 2019 - 21:32) *
Fingers crossed as i have 9 points for speeding

I think you’d be better placed focusing on an EH plea.

While it shouldn’t affect their thinking and decision, human nature being what it is, a bench is likely to look more kindly on an EH plea from someone who admits guilt rather than tries to fight it on a technicality.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
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dddddd
post Tue, 21 Jan 2020 - 20:56
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if I plea not guilty by post, and then they reject it and it goes to court anyway, will that void an exceptional hardship plea?
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