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Speeding - 88mph in an NSL - Please Help!
afcgem
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 10:25
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Good Morning,

This is my first post here so please be gentle.

So I've been a bit stupid, and racked up some points on my licence which if this speeding offence of 88mph in an 70 goes ahead and I get three points means I will most likely be banned from driving for getting 12 points.

I was driving the car, I saw the speed camera van about 500 yards away and immediately slowed down so that by 400 yards I was doing 75, but to no avail, it still got this 88mph reading and I admit to it - I don't believe cameras are ever at fault.

I've never had a speed awareness course before and the letter asking for driver details said I could be offered one if 86mph. If I sent the driver form back with a handwritten letter explaining my situation and also genuine regret (which it is) at the situation, then is there any chance at all they have leeway to be able to offer me a speed awareness course?

Not in my defence but I use my car for work and will probably lose my job if I can't drive, and also take my Uncle and Grandmother to all hospital appointments so I genuinely am remorseful and happy to have any fines or courses, I just really can't lose my licence!

This has resulted in a lot of sleepless nights for the past week so any help would be great.

Many Thanks
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post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 10:25
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The Rookie
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 10:36
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The device in the van measures your speed in 1/3 of a second, braking when you see the van is almost always futile.

The Device can be wrong but in this case you seem to indicate its probably not.

A begging letter is pointless, the rules are set nationally and you don't qualify.

What are the OFFENCE dates for your previous offences? It is offence date to offence date (within the 3 years) that is used for a totting ban.

All is not lost, you can submit a exceptional hardship plea (data suggests that about 1/4 of those who 'tot' make a successful plea) which if accepted will reduce your disqualification period from the normal 6 months to potentially zero.


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Logician
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 10:38
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Unfortunately there is no chance of a course for 88mph in a 70 limit, they stick rigidly to the criteria. What is the earliest offence date of your existing 9 points?


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afcgem
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 10:55
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It unfortunately wasn't very long ago - the three offences came within a short period of time.

What would be the best route to go down for me to try and escape a ban?
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The Rookie
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:06
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An exceptional hardship plea as noted above, hardship suffered has to be (in the eyes of the bench) exceptional, losing your job may not be, but its impact may make it so, impact to others such as the Uncle and Grandmother count and carry more weight as they are 'innocent victims'.

Bear in mind 2 things
1/ If the EH plea is successful you will still be on 12 points
2/ If you transgress again you cannot use the same EH points in a new plea in a 3 years period.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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afcgem
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:15
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Thank you for your help - I really appreciate it, and completely understand how stupid I've been!

I will go down the route of an exceptional hardship plea and see how far it gets me, I appreciate the comments about remaining on 12 points, and will guarantee this is enough of a shock to never make me speed again!
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Logician
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:25
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QUOTE (afcgem @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:55) *
It unfortunately wasn't very long ago - the three offences came within a short period of time. What would be the best route to go down for me to try and escape a ban?


This will be going to court anyway, and your only escape really is an exceptional hardship argument. Losing your job as such may not be exceptional unless others are dependant on your income, or your employers depend on your work and you are not easily replaceable. Taking relatives to hospital is useful but expect a lot of questioning about how often they need to go, who else could take them, public transport or taxi availability and so on. Do not expect the bench to be very sympathetic, your offences over a short period show that you have failed to learn the error of your ways and the routine question comes up, if your licence is as important as you say, why have you kept on speeding?



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Jlc
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:29
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Just to add that the court process will take many months (possibly up to 7) to complete. You can continue driving until then - the timing may or may not help with any exceptional hardship plea.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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afcgem
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:30
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Six points came about because of 57 in a 50 which I never received any forms of letter or notification for, and then all of a sudden appeared on my licence.

They had sent multiple letters to my wrong address and therefore I hadn't had anything from them but was basically advised it was tough and I should have known - despite my driving licence having the correct address on.

The other three was from two years ago.
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Jlc
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:36
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It's too late now but your driving licence is nothing to do with this. Check your v5.

That excess would have qualified for a course. (But if it was 6 points then it was for failing to furnish (MS90 endorsement code) rather than speeding - and indeed that could likely have been dealt with differently)

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:38


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:41
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QUOTE (afcgem @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:30) *
Six points came about because of 57 in a 50 which I never received any forms of letter or notification for, and then all of a sudden appeared on my licence. They had sent multiple letters to my wrong address and therefore I hadn't had anything from them but was basically advised it was tough and I should have known - despite my driving licence having the correct address on. The other three was from two years ago.


Sounds like you might have fallen into the common error of updating your driving licence and failing to update the address on your car V5C. If you got 6 points for failing to identify the driver it is unfortunate you did not post here then, we would have advised you to make a statutory declaration which would have avoided that, and just given you 3 points for speeding.



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NewJudge
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:41
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QUOTE (afcgem @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:30) *
Six points came about because of 57 in a 50 which I never received any forms of letter or notification for, and then all of a sudden appeared on my licence.

They had sent multiple letters to my wrong address and therefore I hadn't had anything from them but was basically advised it was tough and I should have known - despite my driving licence having the correct address on.

The other three was from two years ago.

A bit late now but for future reference there is a way that you could have dealt with that and almost certainly only received three points for speeding instead of six points for "failing to provide driver's details". Whoever advised you that it was "tough" gave you bad advice. The root cause was probably that, whilst you updated your address on your driving licence you did not do so for the vehicle's registration. The two have to be done separately as there is no tie up within the DVLA data between drivers and their vehicles.
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Jlc
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 11:44
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It's worth nothing that how the 12 points were gained have no bearing on the exceptional hardship plea. (Even if the circumstances were 'unfortunate')


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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afcgem
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:29
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 12:44) *
It's worth nothing that how the 12 points were gained have no bearing on the exceptional hardship plea. (Even if the circumstances were 'unfortunate')


Don't worry, I wouldn't at all bring that up. A previous poster asked how I had managed to get so many points so I was just letting people know.

In regards to this, I will turn up at court and argue my case and accept whatever the bench does decide in regards to my driving status - but wanted initial advice as to if there was any leeway with the speed awareness course as it was only by 2mph.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 13:00
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QUOTE (afcgem @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 13:29) *
any leeway with the speed awareness course as it was only by 2mph.

Obviously not...if they allowed a 2mph leeway then the new limit would be 88, then people would want a 2mph leeway over that making it 90mph...etc.etc.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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afcgem
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 14:25
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 14:00) *
QUOTE (afcgem @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 13:29) *
any leeway with the speed awareness course as it was only by 2mph.

Obviously not...if they allowed a 2mph leeway then the new limit would be 88, then people would want a 2mph leeway over that making it 90mph...etc.etc.


Well it's not 'obviously not' is it? I wouldn't have asked the question and would have stayed away from the holier than thou attitude I'm witnessing right now.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 14:40
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OK, its 'obviously not' if you actually think about it first!


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Stoofa
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 14:51
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QUOTE (afcgem @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 15:25) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 14:00) *
QUOTE (afcgem @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 13:29) *
any leeway with the speed awareness course as it was only by 2mph.

Obviously not...if they allowed a 2mph leeway then the new limit would be 88, then people would want a 2mph leeway over that making it 90mph...etc.etc.


Well it's not 'obviously not' is it? I wouldn't have asked the question and would have stayed away from the holier than thou attitude I'm witnessing right now.


Not really "holier than thou" there has to be a limit and it has to be a hard limit and when you think about this, you have to see why that is and that was explained in the post above.
You get a 2mph leeway, now the limit is 88mph, but what if now somebody gets clocked at 89mph, well come on, it's only 1mph, a little more leeway?
You can go on and on adding a little more leeway - where does it stop? Most people will answer "Once I'm covered".

There is a hard limit, means the goal posts don't move for anybody.
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southpaw82
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 15:21
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QUOTE (afcgem @ Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 15:25) *
Well it's not 'obviously not' is it?

To anyone without a vested interest in it not being so, yes. Wind your neck in.


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