PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Mare St E8 banned left turn - another one!
sajphillips
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 22:27
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 42
Joined: 7 Jun 2016
Member No.: 84,813



Hi everyone,

Yes, I'm one of the 17,000-odd souls (and counting) to have fallen foul of Hackney's latest traffic management brainwave / Christmas party funder. Oh how I love my local council!

Having looked through some other posts on here (http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=122149&st=0; http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...21710&st=0) it seems there's an avenue to appeal related to the imprecise location (Mare Street E8) specified on the PCN. There have also been appeals based on the contravention code (50 - Performing a prohibited turn) not specifying which type of turn has been made , i.e. is it left, right, U-turn etc.. Hackney have clearly cottoned on to this however since my PCN gives contravention code 50l (no left turn), so I assume this argument is now defunct.

PCN can be viewed here, note it's 4 pages long:

https://imgur.com/a/hJfZW57

Although the CCTV images on the physical PCN are very unclear, I have checked Hackney's online video and pictures and they clearly identify the vehicle's registration.

I'm wondering whether it's worth appealing on the ground of the imprecise location given on the PCN... Don't fancy my chances much but will take any advice on here, as ever.

Thanks all
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 8)
Advertisement
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 22:27
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
cp8759
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 15:16
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



Have a read of grounds 2 & 3 here: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1411505


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sajphillips
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 20:13
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 42
Joined: 7 Jun 2016
Member No.: 84,813



Thanks CP, have read those ones but I don't think Ground 2 applies any more - my PCN gives contravention code '50l performing a prohibited turn', not code 50.

Am contemplating appealing on just ground 3 - the vague location - but not sure what my chances of success are. Is it worth the punt..?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 10:21
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



If your PCN doesn't say "no left turn" then ground 2 still stands, I'm not sure most people would know what 50l means (and the PCN needs to specify what sort of illegal turn is alleged). Your chances on a technical appeal are hard to predict as every adjudicator can give their own interpretation of the law, but I think it's worth trying.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sajphillips
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 20:38
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 42
Joined: 7 Jun 2016
Member No.: 84,813



Ok thanks CP, I agree it's worth a shot. I've submitted my appeal to Hackney. Will update when I have a response.

PS - there was a segment on ITV Tonight on, er, tonight... around 7.30pm. All about this left turn. 'No left turn in Hackney scandal - uncovered!'. They've actually made the national news.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sajphillips
post Fri, 30 Nov 2018 - 14:49
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 42
Joined: 7 Jun 2016
Member No.: 84,813



Hi all,

I've received the following rejection of appeal from Hackney:

https://imgur.com/a/EKuhBls

My appeal to Hackney was on two grounds, similar to grounds 2 & 3 in this thread: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...p;#entry1411505

i.e.,
1) the contravention code on the original PCN (50l) was not sufficient to explain the grounds on which the enforcement authority believe a charge is payable (it does not make clear the offence was a no left turn, just that it was a prohibited turn)

2) the location specified in the original PCN (Mare St) is not precise enough to allow the recipient to understand where the offence took place.

My initial thoughts on Hackney's response are that:

a) Hackney's response gives the nature of contravention as '50l - performing a prohibited turn (no left turn)' whereas the PCN gives it simply as '50l - performing a prohibited turn'. This seems quite telling to me, the contravention code in the rejection letter is much clearer than on the PCN.

b) The response doesn't really address the other appeal ground (2 above) at all.

I'm planning to appeal to the adjudicator on these two points.

Grateful for any further thoughts or ideas on this?

Thanks
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Fri, 30 Nov 2018 - 19:34
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



I think you've nailed the issues, just post a draft here before submitting to the tribunal.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
sajphillips
post Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 14:21
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 42
Joined: 7 Jun 2016
Member No.: 84,813



For those that are interested, my appeal to the adjudicator failed on this occasion.

Case ref: 2180503640

Adjudicator's Reasons:

I have accepted the Council evidence establishes that it correctly identified the appellant vehicle being
driven contrary to signage prohibiting a left turn at the time recorded. I have accepted the signage
prohibiting the turn was legally adequate and unobscured at the material time.

The appellant has sought cancellation of the penalty charge on the basis that the penalty charge
notice received was legally defective. He has described the decision in Biesty v Brent where the
Adjudicator overturned a penalty charge on the grounds that the penalty charge notice did not specify
whether the prohibited turn was left, right or U.

In the present case the selection of photographs included in the penalty charge notice should have
been easily recognisable by the recipient as relating to a prohibited left turn and moreover the penalty
charge notice indicated availability of online of images. These would have removed doubt if genuine
doubt there ever was.

I do not see the penalty charge notice as formally defective for failing to specify the nature of the
prohibited turn. Furthermore I do not see any prejudice arising from its description on the penalty
charge notice. I do not regard Biesty as strong grounds for cancellation in this particular case and I
am declining to apply it. I regard the appellant point as wholly without merit.

A further ground of appeal relates to the length of Mare St, the number of junctions and the lack of
particularity. It is my ruling legally adequate information was provided on the penalty charge notice
and the penalty charge properly stands without it containing a fuller description. I am not adopting
and following the decision in Kelly v Harrow in relation to this present appeal.

I am satisfied the Council notice of rejection in the present case contained the information that was
legally mandatory and adequately described the Council case for pursuing the penalty charge even if
it did not address motorist representations in greater detail than it did.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sat, 16 Feb 2019 - 15:26
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



There's a reason I said to post a draft here first.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 15:17
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here