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Caught on Police Speed Gun, Caught in 40mph dual carriageway by Police speed gun doing 71mph
Flywithmeforfree
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 14:58
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This afternoon, I was caught doing 71mph in a 40mph dual carriageway. It was near a school, but it’s a Saturday and schools out. The roads and weather were clear and visibility was high. It was about 1pm.

I was pulled over by Police showing me the 71mph on their gun at 181 metres when they clocked me.

I have a clean licence, however, I have 3 points pending on my licence from November 2017 that I am looking to appeal. Currently, my licence is clean.

The question is:

1. Am I facing a ban?
2. At the time of the offence (today) I am unemployed, however, I may start a job next week, if it goes to caught will the additional 31mph I was driving at be subject to the income related fine when it goes to court.
3. Are they any mitigating circumstances I can apply to the case or think about to avoid the fine or the ban/points?

Thanks for your help

This post has been edited by Flywithmeforfree: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:01
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post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 14:58
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AntonyMMM
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:06
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1) Potentially yes - that speed could be a short ban or 6 points (not both).
2) Your income when you go to court is what counts
3) Unless you have a defence (doesn't sound like it) then you can't avoid the fine and ban/points. Stick to a simple apology - do not try and suggest what you were doing was in any way acceptable (even on a Saturday).


What does "looking to appeal" mean ?
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Jlc
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:08
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That excess is almost certainly a lengthy ban - around 1-2 months. (And will go to court)

If your income at the time of conviction is low then the minimum figure of £110/week will be used. A guilty plea at that speed will be around 1 week’s relevant earnings, costs of £85 and a surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30).

How long have you had your licence?

What do you mean appeal? (Have you been convicted?)

There’s no way to mitigate that excess - you can only aggravate realistically.

You should also check your insurance conditions in regards to notification of prosecutions/convictions.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:09


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Flywithmeforfree
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:42
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I thank you that’s very helpful. I guess there are no mitigating circumstances, however, if I admit it with an apology, will a “ban” count as disqualification for Insurance purposes all be it the maximum of 7-56 days for a band C offence which this falls into?

a.Can I be disqualified for any longer?
b. What is probability of getting 6 points instead of the ban?
c. Will I need to attend court myself or is it all done via post/paper?
d. What will a Judge use to determine a ban verses poijts normallu. I hear if my speed was within a 45% range of the 40mph which it wasn’t then he can just apply points rather than a ban. I guess I’m looking at a ban right?

This post has been edited by Flywithmeforfree: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:45
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Jlc
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:51
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Yes the ban would be declarable for insurance.

The ban is unlikely to exceed the guideline 2 months. 6 points are possible but are unlikely.

It is almost certain you’ll have to attend court. Although they may use a postal plea first but will revert to normal hearing.

You don’t get to choose points/ban but the bench can be influenced.

You haven’t answered the other questions that could be relevant.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Flywithmeforfree
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 17:51
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I have had my license for over 25 years and this is the first time ever I’ve been caught at this ridiculous speed which is so unlike me
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Jlc
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 17:59
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And the 'appeal'?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Flywithmeforfree
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 18:07
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I got caught today. I don’t believe there will be any grounds to appeal or attempt to even me considering “it didn’t happen”
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samthecat
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 18:16
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QUOTE (Flywithmeforfree @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 18:07) *
I got caught today. I don’t believe there will be any grounds to appeal or attempt to even me considering “it didn’t happen”


I think the question was to do with the November incident?


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Jlc
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 18:59
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QUOTE (samthecat @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 18:16) *
QUOTE (Flywithmeforfree @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 18:07) *
I got caught today. I don’t believe there will be any grounds to appeal or attempt to even me considering “it didn’t happen”


I think the question was to do with the November incident?

Indeed.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Flywithmeforfree
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 20:59
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Apologies. So as far as the November incident is concerned, I wrote to the constabulary and said that two emergency vehicles on blue lights were approaching my behind fast . I had to accelerate to overtake a car on inner lane of dual carriageway and got caught 10mph over speed limit. This is true. I got flashed.

I am now left with the fine and points as they wrote back and said the fine and points remain and I have 2 days from today to reply either accept it or goto court. With these points outstanding will it look bad on this new incident of today? Should I goto court on the point about blue lights coming behind me ?
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peterguk
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 21:04
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QUOTE (Flywithmeforfree @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 20:59) *
I had to accelerate to overtake a car on inner lane of dual carriageway and got caught 10mph over speed limit.


Can't see a defence there. Emergency vehicles are used to waiting for vehicles to move out of the way.

You could plead guilty, attend court and suggest there are special reasons not to endorse (Magistrates under no obligation to agree), but if you stick with NG i fear it will be a very expensive day out.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 21:23


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Jlc
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 21:21
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It is almost always safer to brake than accelerate. There doesn't appear to be a defence of duress and if the police won"t use discretion then going to court could be risky. I presume you have a fixed penalty offer? (What about a course?)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Logician
post Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 21:31
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 15:08) *
That excess is almost certainly a lengthy ban - around 1-2 months.


I think that is too severe, it was in a 40mph area, were you perhaps thinking it was 30mph? The OP is therefore just 5mph into that band and therefore at the lower end. I would think 14 to 21 days maximum and see 6 points as being quite possible.

OP, There is no defence in getting out of the way of an emergency vehicle and as the police will not drop it, other things being equal I would suggest simply taking the fixed penalty. But other things are not equal with the prospect of 6 points from the current offence, so I think it would be worth going to court, pleading guilty, putting forward the emergency vehicle as mitigation, and asking the court to find special reasons not to endorse your licence with points, and why not also ask for a conditional discharge, that is little used in road traffic cases but seems to fit the bill here.

Some evidence of the emergency vehicle would help, if not on the photo of your car, ask the police if there is one of it tripping the camera.

This post has been edited by Logician: Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 23:20


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Jlc
post Sun, 14 Jan 2018 - 10:00
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Whoops, my over exuberance. Worth trying the postal plea for 6 points first.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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notmeatloaf
post Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 21:49
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 13 Jan 2018 - 21:21) *
It is almost always safer to brake than accelerate. There doesn't appear to be a defence of duress and if the police won"t use discretion then going to court could be risky. I presume you have a fixed penalty offer? (What about a course?)

Just to add to this as someone with blue light training (ambulance not police) the best thing to do is continue at the speed you are at, slowing or accelerating gradually if needed to move out the way. Often people with the best of intentions brake hard or try and accelerate out the way and it only means you end up slowing because you're having to anticipate not only what they're doing but all the traffic around them which then panics and slams on the brakes too.

Obviously you're trained to deal with whatever, many more people suddenly brake than suddenly accelerate but being observant and predictable is the best way to help emergency services.

As others have said best thing to do is an apologetic email to the Chief Constable saying it was a well intentioned mistake, you've since researched it and now know the best way to assist emergency vehicles, police doing such important work, etc. Personally I wouldn't take it to court as they have much less discretion than the police.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 - 21:50
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