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PCN Harrow, Being in a bus lane.
Korting
post Mon, 5 Sep 2022 - 22:11
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My wife got caught in this bus lane.

The markings on the road are very very worn
There is no pictures of the signage so neither us nor any adjudicator can know what the restrictions are
I very much doubt that the camera employed is home office approved.

https://imgur.com/a/WyDGrqB

Can someone help me challenge this?
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post Mon, 5 Sep 2022 - 22:11
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Schofeldt
post Thu, 29 Sep 2022 - 19:20
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Dear Korting, you know what the score is. Just know that they will force you to go to the Tribunal. And they will be added to the list.

This post has been edited by Schofeldt: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 - 19:20


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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Korting
post Fri, 4 Nov 2022 - 23:17
Post #22


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I've just received the enforcement notice:

https://imgur.com/a/7yUnt4O
https://imgur.com/a/KZOvwGo

I presume i send this which is virtually the same as the informal appeal.

QUOTE
The contravention did not occur:

The signage and road markings are unfit for purpose, there is no video to access which presumably is where the still pictures were taken. There is no picture of the sign required to convey the restrictions.

Kenton Road bus lanes are restrictive between 7am to 10am and 4.00pm-7.00pm, the alleged contravention occurred at 14.56. As you have not included any pictures of the signs, the Council cannot prove that there was a restriction at that time.

I also challenge liability on the basis that:

Under section 4(1) of the London Local Authorities Act 1996, a PCN may only be served "on the basis of information provided by the use of a prescribed device", section 3 (1) defines a prescribed device in the following terms:

“prescribed device” means a device prescribed under section 20(9) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 or a device of a description specified in regulations made for the purposes of this section by the Secretary of State;

In addition to being prescribed, the camera must also be approved, as sub-paragraphs 7(2) & (3) of Schedule 1 to the Act provide that:

(2) A record produced or measurement made by a prescribed device shall not be admissible as evidence of a fact relevant to proceedings under paragraph 6 above unless—
(a) the device is of a type approved by the Secretary of State; and
(b) any conditions subject to which the approval was given are satisfied.

(3) Any approval given by the Secretary of State for the purposes of this paragraph may be given subject to conditions as to the purposes for which, and the manner and other circumstances in which, any device of the type concerned is to be used.

Would the council please provide evidence that its camera has been approved for the purposes of paragraph 7 of Schedule 1 to the 1996 Act.

The council will appreciate that if its camera is not both prescribed under section 3(1) and authorised under paragraph 7 of Schedule 1, then its video is not admissible in tribunal proceedings so no contravention could be proved.

I understand that the above has already been conveyed to the Leader of Harrow Council, Cllr Paul Osborne. That being the case, it would appear that by issuing Penalty Charge Notices from images obtained from these cameras, the Council is in fact obtaining and attempting to obtain monies from drivers/registered keepers by deception.

I therefore require you to cancel the PCN forthwith. If the Council will not cancel the PCN, I will not hesitate to take the matter to the appeals tribunal.


I perhaps should add that "in my informal appeal, I asked you to supply me with details of the camera approval ? Would the council please provide evidence that its camera has been approved for the purposes of paragraph 7 of Schedule 1 to the 1996 Act.

The council will appreciate that if its camera is not both prescribed under section 3(1) and authorised under paragraph 7 of Schedule 1, then its video is not admissible in tribunal proceedings so no contravention could be proved.


They have not responded adequately to my question and therefore they have committed a PI.

This post has been edited by Korting: Fri, 4 Nov 2022 - 23:22
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Schofeldt
post Sat, 5 Nov 2022 - 20:41
Post #23


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There is no P. I. in London bus lane legislation as such. I would send the template again but beefed up to include their camera. I will e mail you the link. But, cp will no doubt have his views as you have accepted his offer to represent. If they mess up their NOR, that is a different matter.

This post has been edited by Schofeldt: Sun, 6 Nov 2022 - 10:47


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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cp8759
post Mon, 7 Nov 2022 - 19:04
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I would just send the original representations again and if they mess up the NoR, we can deal with that at the tribunal stage.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Korting
post Thu, 16 Feb 2023 - 09:14
Post #25


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I've just happened to look at Harrow's website and found that the PCN has been cancelled. So far I have not received any correspondence but I'm sure I will.
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Schofeldt
post Thu, 16 Feb 2023 - 09:15
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I wonder why. Next step in my view is to request/require an explanation please.

This post has been edited by Schofeldt: Thu, 16 Feb 2023 - 20:49


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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Longtime Lurker
post Thu, 16 Feb 2023 - 10:27
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QUOTE (Korting @ Thu, 16 Feb 2023 - 09:14) *
I've just happened to look at Harrow's website and found that the PCN has been cancelled. So far I have not received any correspondence but I'm sure I will.


It wouldn't hurt to screenshot that, just in case.

I agree with Schofeldt that you should pursue this further, they will continue to issue tickets that they know are unlawful and get away with it unless people push back hard enough.
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Schofeldt
post Thu, 16 Feb 2023 - 20:51
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QUOTE (Longtime Lurker @ Thu, 16 Feb 2023 - 10:27) *
QUOTE (Korting @ Thu, 16 Feb 2023 - 09:14) *
I've just happened to look at Harrow's website and found that the PCN has been cancelled. So far I have not received any correspondence but I'm sure I will.


It wouldn't hurt to screenshot that, just in case.

I agree with Schofeldt that you should pursue this further, they will continue to issue tickets that they know are unlawful and get away with it unless people push back hard enough.

Ask them a simple question: have you applied to have your VCA certificates properly approved/updated as per DfT advice of 17th November?


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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Korting
post Fri, 17 Feb 2023 - 09:04
Post #29


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From the Harrow website, (details redacted)

https://imgur.com/a/jqoq0IM
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Schofeldt
post Fri, 17 Feb 2023 - 12:26
Post #30


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Yes; but please, you should require a full explanation.


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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Korting
post Wed, 8 Mar 2023 - 08:50
Post #31


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This is what I've received from Harrow: They did not answer questions put to them.

QUOTE
Dear Sir or Madam

Notice of Acceptance of Representations

Penalty Charge Notice (parking ticket) number: HR********

Contravention Date: 22/08/22

Location: KENTON ROAD HA3 J/W ORCHARD GROVE AND KENTON RD SERVICE RD

Vehicle registration: *******

Thank you for your correspondence.

I can confirm that on this occasion, we have decided to cancel your Penalty Charge Notice, and no further action will be taken.

Kind regards,

BNG

Parking Enforcement Team


This post has been edited by Korting: Wed, 8 Mar 2023 - 08:53
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Incandescent
post Wed, 8 Mar 2023 - 09:53
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Well, it's a win !
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Schofeldt
post Wed, 8 Mar 2023 - 10:01
Post #33


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So, please request a full explanation in frank terms. This is very necessary re future action.


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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Schofeldt
post Sat, 27 May 2023 - 13:46
Post #34


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This is just another example of unfairness. This PCN was cancelled and the camera issue was clearly raised. More to follow. Two others were not, however.

This post has been edited by Schofeldt: Sat, 27 May 2023 - 18:30


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
Go to the top of the page
 
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Schofeldt
post Tue, 6 Jun 2023 - 08:52
Post #35


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Costs were awarded yesterday re the other two.


--------------------
People, we come and go Memories, they ebb and flow. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

People, we can be kind True love is hard to find. When we fill our lives with emptiness This does not create true happiness. As this is the Dance of Life.

Animals, we kill to eat For many, it’s just a treat. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance. As this is the Dance of Life.

Our Earth is our Heavenly home God-given to freely roam. When we fill our lives with arrogance We create a huge imbalance As this is the Dance of Life.

One day, we will all be judged This simple truth cannot be fudged. When we carry on so blindly We do not act all so kindly. As this is the Dance of Life.

As Above, and so Below A simple truth to help us grow. When we put aside our egotism We will really find altruism. As this is the Dance of Life.

The Divine lives in all things Manifested in music’s rings. The planets are a testament To the everlasting firmament. As this is the Dance of Life.


It's all in the wrist.
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