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Incandescent
Posted on: Yesterday, 10:15


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OK, fine, and thanks. Yes, 5 days OK, I think the minimum is 3 days. Your original reps to the council will be in their evidence pack.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1361223 · Replies: 36 · Views: 1,631

Incandescent
Posted on: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 22:33


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If you feel sufficiently aggrieved with their verbal prestidigitation, then take them all the way to the adjudicators. Normally we have found great forbearance with the DART operators but clearly telephone conversations on financial matters can go astray sometimes. Maybe someone new in DART has decided it is to be "no more Mr Niceguy", but who knows.

If you appeal, you use statutory grounds E - the penalty exceeded the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case

you rang to admit you had not paid, and a toll payment was taken and a receipt issued. As far as you were concerned this was the end of the matter, and the PCN came as a surprise. No advice or indication of any kind was made by the DART operator that a PCN would be issued. This is acting unfairly so needs testing at adjudication. They may, of course, give way when you appeal, but don't bank on it. Of course if you appeal you lose the discount option.

Main thing to bear in mind is it was your error that the toll was not paid by the deadline, so be circumspect in your dealings with DART.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1361163 · Replies: 10 · Views: 157

Incandescent
Posted on: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 22:19


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Thanks for qualifying my advice. I do not know all the ins-and-outs by any means. Yes, good idea to submit one to at least suspend bailiff action so a pause for breath can be taken and considered thoughts made without undue pressure. One thing we all know is that bailiffs are very good at applying pressure !!
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1361161 · Replies: 27 · Views: 345

Incandescent
Posted on: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 21:59


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Yes it is harsh, because venal and rapacious councils like Leeds like the "nice little earner" of people paying PCN penalty charges, and will issue PCNs for the most trivial of trivial contraventions, and there is nobody to stop them doing it, only you appealing all the way to adjudicators to decide one way or the other. As doing this is a double-or-quits gamble, not many people appeal and just cough-up the discounted amoount which then acts to reinforce the councils in their zeal to get the money in. Out of every 100 bus lane PCN photos we see on here, probably only one has a bus anywhere in it ! The bus lanes essentially are a money-making device, but the law ain't going to change any time soon.

Anyway, if you are going to appeal this you really need to see the video. The Traffic Penalty Tribunal have an unofficial 20 metre rule on bus lanes which tends to cover most cases where people move across to turn left too early. If you reckon you are within that distance then appeal all the way, as it comes under the well-established legal principal of "de minimis" (de minimis non curat lex), i.e the law does not concern itself with trifling offences. HOwever be aware that there is no guarantee you'll win your case, but the more homework you do to show it is de minimis, the more likely it is you'll win.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1361150 · Replies: 5 · Views: 116

Incandescent
Posted on: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 21:42


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QUOTE (GSK79 @ Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 21:22) *
The JBW notice requires me to pay in full by the 7th March.

There is nothing to prevent you submitting a request to submit an Out-of-Time Statutory Declaration, but unfortunately, you not updating the V5 and the ability of the council to oppose the application means you would invariably have to pay out money to get a County Court judge to review the refusal with a view to overturning this. Unfortunately it is now a matter of arithmetic and working out what is your best option financially. My view, (others may differ), is that if the OOT is refused, it would be better to pay up and put this down as a learning opportunity in Life's Rich Pageant. Yes, a harsh lesson, but English civil law is very harsh, I'm afraid.

PS: Does the sum demanded of £173 include the £98 or is it the sum of the two ?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1361145 · Replies: 27 · Views: 345

Incandescent
Posted on: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 21:35


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There is nothing wrong with the PCN.

Colour of car is irrelevant to enforcement of the PCN

Your PCN is a parking PCN served by being attached to the vehicle, or handed to the driver. There is no requirement to mention anything about an increased charge if the PCN is not paid or appealed, because liability for the PCN lies with the owner of the vehicle who may not have been the driver at the time the PCN was served. A Notice to Owner is normally issued after 28 days from service of the PCN if the PCN is not paid, or a challenge is made to the PCN and rejected. The NtO document, not the PCN, contains the information on what will happen if the NtO is ignored. For PCNs for contraventions relating to bus lanes, or other moving traffic offences, the PCN is sent directly by post to the owner, so therefore these PCNs do contain the relevant information. It is important to understand that there is more than one type of PCN, and at least three sets of legislation and regulations where a PCN can be issued.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1361143 · Replies: 9 · Views: 177

Incandescent
Posted on: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 19:57


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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 19:25) *
Well it's a no brainer to appeal as they are stinging you for the full £130. At least you can probably recover the discount by saying you did not find a PCN on the car.

The delay in sending the NTO is prejudicial to making a decent appeal too.

The vagueness of the 'spaces' is more ammunition.

And you may have been parked when the suspension went up - you can ask for the log.

+1
The discount has gone, so you really must appeal this as they are acting very unfairly in issuing the NtO so long after the alleged contravention date. Here is what the statutory guidance says: -

QUOTE
Issuing the Notice to Owner
9.9 If the penalty charge is not paid the enforcement authority may issue a Notice to Owner. The purpose of this is to ensure that the penalty charge notice was received by the vehicle owner and to remind the vehicle owner that the payment in full is now due and if it is not paid within a further 28 days it may be increased. The Notice to Owner may be issued 28 days after serving the penalty charge, and we expect authorities to send them within 56 days. The ultimate time limit, in exceptional circumstances, is six months from the “relevant date”. There should be a very good reason for waiting that long to serve a Notice to Owner.
The Regulations set out the information that the Notice to Owner must give. There are different requirements when the penalty charge notice acts as the Notice to Owner (see paragraph 8.6).
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1361129 · Replies: 16 · Views: 223

Incandescent
Posted on: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 19:45


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Appealing means the discount option is lost. Your argument essentially comes down to inadequate signage, but it's clear from your post you are not aware of the bus lane restrictions on types of vehicles. Only Transport for London bus lanes in London allow motorcycles, and one must assume all bus lanes other than TfL's bar motorcycles. Better not to venture into them at all using a motorised vehicle !

If you're going to appeal on inadequate signage you need to do your homework and prove the signs are not in accordance with the legal requirements.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1361125 · Replies: 2 · Views: 87

Incandescent
Posted on: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 19:28


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This is in the wrong forum, it needs to be moved to the private tickets forum asap.

OP, you should press the 'Report'button and ask to be moved.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1361124 · Replies: 5 · Views: 150

Incandescent
Posted on: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 19:25


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QUOTE (GSK79 @ Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 18:17) *
I pay my road tax via monthly direct debit.

Genuine mistake not updating my V5C with the DVLA, I'm normally really careful with updating my address - I'd updated everything else within a week of moving. It's just one of those things that with the stresses of moving slipped my mind.

If it's a waste of time filing the PE2 and PE3 I'll just have to foot the bill and swallow humble pie.

Just wanted to get peoples opinions on whether it's worth it and likelihood of them rejecting them.

Thanks,

Gavin.

There is, unfortunately, a disease rife amongst officials, it is called "bureaucratic tidiness syndrome" the symptoms are a complete failure to consider or even to understand that people can occasionally forget to carry out some small or apparently trivial task imposed on them by statute. When the duties on a citizen can possibly add up to a couple of hundred separate obligations one can see that things can get missed. However a huge pile of legislation is imposed on the basis that a statutory obligation will always be undertaken. Personally, I don't think any enforcement authority should be able to oppose a statutory declaration. Do they want justice done or just the money ? I think we all know the answer.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1361121 · Replies: 27 · Views: 345

Incandescent
Posted on: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 17:55


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Yet another OP who did not update his V5 ! We see so many of these and unfortunately it almost never ends well

The trouble with all these threads which hinge on this issue is that Out-of-Time Statutory Declarations can, and invariably are, opposed by the enforcement authorities. TEC then refuse the declaration and the appellant, it wanting to take it further, has to get the declaration reviewed by a County Court judge at a cost of £100 for reviewing the papers, or £255 if the appellant requests a hearing "in chambers". Looking at the amount demanded by the bailiffs, (£178), I have to say that it might be best for the OP to pay up if the OOT declaration is refused, as the £178 remains then there is the £100 to add on as a minimum. The judge is likely to take the view that the OP is the architect of his own misfortune. It is harsh but that is the reality.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1361089 · Replies: 27 · Views: 345

Incandescent
Posted on: Fri, 23 Feb 2018 - 17:43


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Can you give a GSV reference and tell us what you do every day. FYI just because you want to turn left ahead this does not allow you to drive in the bus lane. The PCN photos seem to show you went some distance in the bus lane, so for me you look bang-to-rights.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1361087 · Replies: 8 · Views: 122

Incandescent
Posted on: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 21:55


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So they are still enforcing despite a High Court judge ruling that it is illegal. Looks like a clear case of malfeasance to me.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1360808 · Replies: 19 · Views: 293

Incandescent
Posted on: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 12:48


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It's not a CPZ, unfortunately. These new parking zones are the invention of the devil, being usually inadequately signed, and applied to far too many streets without repeater signs. However, whether the signage is adequate is subjective. Any appeal needs to explain why you missed the entry sign, because if it's easy to miss the lack of repeaters compounds the council inadequacy. I sometimes think they deliberately sign badly so lots of nice PCN penalties can roll in. They know, as do we on this forum, that 95% of people just cough up straightaway when they get the PCN so why bother to sign adequately when you can make lots of money out of the system
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1360618 · Replies: 5 · Views: 167

Incandescent
Posted on: Thu, 22 Feb 2018 - 10:04


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From what you say you're bang-to-rights; the yellow sign is yellow to make sure people look at it. However as per the norm for this forum, post up the PCN, all sides with car details and PCN Number blanked out. Leave everything else in. A GSV link to the location is also useful.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1360548 · Replies: 2 · Views: 100

Incandescent
Posted on: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 21:48


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No PCN, no Notice to Owner, no dates, nothing that would allow us to place where we are in this process.

Your last post was 7th Feb and HCA kindly posted the basis of an appeal, but an appeal to whom ? If London Tribunals, have you a date for the adjudication, if so, please tell us.

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1360461 · Replies: 36 · Views: 1,631

Incandescent
Posted on: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 20:14


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QUOTE
They have told me (since my first post) I can only collect bulky or heavy items to warrant parking on a single yellow (within the restricted hours) outside a shop.


Well, what were you collecting ? Were the goods prepaid or were you just shopping. Appealing based on the loading exemption usually ends up at the adjudicators. Much depends on the nature of the goods being loaded, it is not necessarily just confined to "bulky or heavy items"
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1360425 · Replies: 8 · Views: 272

Incandescent
Posted on: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 12:41


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QUOTE (robot @ Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 12:17) *
Well I paid the first ticket at half price and challenged the rest by letter nearly 2 weeks ago and have heard nothing. I did not send the letter recorded post and I do wonder if they could just pretend they did not receive my letter (perhaps they haven't). In which case I will be waiting for a knock on my door.

If there is an on-line facility to see what the status of your PCN is, then have a look. Whatever you do, don't forget about it;you don't want bailiffs knocking on your door in a few months time. Is the address on your V5 absolutely correct in every detail ? If they haven't received your reps, the next thing is they issue a Notice to Owner by post. We see far to many people on here with bailiffs at the door who have not updated their V5 and have not received all the statutory documents.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1360232 · Replies: 13 · Views: 323

Incandescent
Posted on: Wed, 21 Feb 2018 - 09:04


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No point in paying-up now until a London Tribunals adjudicator tells you to, as the penalty will not increase as you've lost the discount. Assuming your appeal didn't say anything about taxi driving, there is a clear case of failure to consider. Letters like this from TfL really do indicate the extent of the incompetence in their management of the enforcement process.

As I see it, you can appeal to LT on: -

- Failure to consider
- Exceptional circumstances (your friend's problem)
- De minimis (middle of the night with very light traffic)

Any one of these could win for you., but we need to see your reps asap.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1360123 · Replies: 16 · Views: 322

Incandescent
Posted on: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 - 10:01


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Please post up PCN and their response to your challenge.
Was the PCN served on the car or to you, or did you get it by post ?
FYI, you cannot appeal a CC, only pay it. If you want to reset to NTO, wait for the Order for Recovery then submit a Witness Statement. Is the address on the CC correct in all detail ? We have seen cases where the OP says he got a posted document, but not an earlier one, but it had a slightly wrong address and the postman, (being a regular), put it in the right address, or a neighbour got it and passed it on. Address used is on your V5, their only source for it.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1359743 · Replies: 21 · Views: 402

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 13:13


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QUOTE
At my TPT on Friday 16 February 2018 for this location (Nelson Street to Hathersage Road) the adjudicator described the signage as 'hopeless' in the written adjudication and in the oral hearing told Manchester City Council that they should not be enforcing PCN's until they have sorted the signage out.

But of course they will because most people just cough-up as soon as they receive the PCN, it is money for old rope for them. My view is that if an adjudicator told them that, then they are guilty of malfeasance if they just carry on. Only when some officials go to jail will things change.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1359410 · Replies: 38 · Views: 939

Incandescent
Posted on: Mon, 19 Feb 2018 - 12:53


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QUOTE
"The road outside my house has double yellow lines, so we have always parked on the road for over a year."

The DYLs bar parking 24x7 and this includes footways and verges up to the property line, which on your 2nd pic of the mini is the low wall. No separate signs are needed. So on the face of it, your girlfriend is bang-to-rights, but if you've regularly parked at that spot with the DYLs then an appeal based on "legitimate expectation" could win at adjudication, but the council will not give way so you'd have to take it all the way and forego the discount option.

Only other possible avenue is the PCN itself. Sometimes these contain fatal errors of content that make them void, but again, you'd have to go to adjudication to test the matter. So as others have said, post up the PCN for further advice.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1359399 · Replies: 9 · Views: 184

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 21:11


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In terms of enforce-ability, the contravention is ONLY enforceable with the video, and if you decide to take them to London Tribunals the adjudicator will expect to be able to view it. The key point is not to delay making an appeal until you have viewed it, but note its non-availability in your appeal and make sure they understand that you will take them to London Tribunals on this under statutory grounds "the penalty exceeded the relevant amount in the circumstances of the case". Far too many councils are now gaming the system by being tardy with video viewing. They do state that you can view the video at their premises, (that is the legal mandate), so if they can't show it there they lose game-set-and match. There is no legal right to view on-line but having said on the PCN you can, and then not making it available, they are acting unfairly and the above grounds apply to this as well.

Note that there is no grounds of "procedural impropriety", this only applies to parking.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1359212 · Replies: 4 · Views: 117

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 20:55


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Just to clarify, as it is obvious you are not up-to-speed in these matters..........

- PCN is served onto the car, but no payment or challenge is made, so then..........
- A Notice to Owner with the same information is issued to the owner of the vehicle as recorded by the DVLA for the registration number. Payment or appeal is invited but if
nothing is received by the authority then....
- A Charge Certificate is sent to the owner as per the DVLA with the penalty increasing by 50%, but if no payment is made, then......
- The debt is registered at the Traffic Enforcement Centre, Northampton, who then record it and allow the authority to issue an......
- Order for Recovery and this is accompanied by the forms to make a Witness Statement, but if nothing is received back within the period allowed, then.......
- The authority are permitted to instruct bailiffs to collect the debt, and who are allowed to add on their own charges for doing this, but if no payment is received then.....
- The bailiffs are entitled in law to seize goods to sell-on and thus discharge the debt. The car of the debtor normally is sufficiently valuable to discharge the debt and also easily found, but other goods may be seized until the debt is discharged.

It seems, from your own account, that the owner of the car is now at the penultimate stage outlined above. Getting the process reverted is now going to be mega-difficult if no responses have been made to the above documents, (sometimes called "putting the head in the sand"). However until you can come back with what, if anything, has already been submitted we ar ein the dark.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1359203 · Replies: 7 · Views: 192

Incandescent
Posted on: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 - 20:35


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It is clear that the Scottish bus lane adjudicators have very few cases to deal with if they can write page upon page of this guff.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1359196 · Replies: 104 · Views: 1,472

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