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PCN on broken down vehicle
flamer
post Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 20:00
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Hiya,

On my street, only residents with permits are allowed to park from 6pm to midnight every day of the week. Having known that, I started to move my car just before 6pm into the drive which is when I discovered that my reverse gear would not engage. Car moved out of the box a little and then I went ahead to call my family to help me push the car into the drive to avoid the ticket. My bad luck that I got a ticket issued within minutes after the restriction kicked in!

Street and parking location: https://www.google.com/maps/place/18+Winche...33;4d-0.2906655







I challenged the PCN on the following basis (can't find the exact wordings)
1. Vehicle was broken down.
2. Procedural error - There is no observation time recorded on the photos. They are all at 18:06. (yes, the PCN says 18:03 to 18:05 but there is no evidence of car stationary at 18:03. Anyone can take note of a vehicle reg just trying to park and start the observation even before the offence is committed.)
3. According to 12 and 19, observation time in a resident permit bay is 5 minutes (twisting the words here tbh): https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/3144...ion%20times.pdf
4. Single yellow line observation time is shown as 2 minutes.
5. There must be some sort of waiting period after the restrictions kick in (Don't know where to look).

Their response is as follows:




Points that I noted:
1. There is no controlled zone sign at the start of the street. There is when we enter the slip road but that could mean it applies to just that slip road.
2. It mentions that I was parked close to a junction - That is completely false.
3. Asks for a breakdown company report - I have one from 1st Aug when the entire clutch gave away at heathrow airport parking and the breakdown service was called.


The car is still in the broken down state and situated safely on the same street but at a free parking spot. Mostly going to take it off road and scrap it.

Any help is greatly appreciated!

This post has been edited by flamer: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 21:00
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post Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 20:00
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stamfordman
post Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 20:10
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Well it's just beyond the 2 minutes grace that London councils usually apply for coming into contravention on a yellow line. They are inviting you to to send evidence of breakdown but you only have something from another location.

But I think I would have another go at this. You did your best to get it out of the CPZ although it's never good to leave things to the last minute.

By the way the CPZ only needs entry signs to the zone - you obviously knew you were in one.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 20:11
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hcandersen
post Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 20:26
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One side is restricted waiting, the other a mix of res parking bays, yellow lines and, according to GSV, unenforceable bays(because they're not signed).

As the contravention relates to waiting, then according to your account you must have been parked on the side with bays and yellow lines and moved out of a bay in order to move off the road - although if you have off-road space available then why were you not parked there in the first place ?? Anyway, we need to see their photos please - you should have these by now as this happened a month ago. We would expect to see your car straddled across a bay and SYL opp no. 18.

But will we? (I cannot make out any detail from the photos in their letter)
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flamer
post Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 20:59
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 21:10) *
Well it's just beyond the 2 minutes grace that London councils usually apply for coming into contravention on a yellow line. They are inviting you to to send evidence of breakdown but you only have something from another location.

But I think I would have another go at this. You did your best to get it out of the CPZ although it's never good to leave things to the last minute.

By the way the CPZ only needs entry signs to the zone - you obviously knew you were in one.


The 2 minutes observation isn't shown in the photographic evidence?
I didn't know that I was in the zone. Only realized it when I looked at GSV that there is a sign at the start of the slip road. All I knew was there is the resident permit bay restriction.

Have a go in what sense? Should I send them the broken down vehicle report and try and convince them that when the first time the car broke down - I pushed it into the drive and then the vehicle finally gave away 2 days later?


QUOTE (hcandersen @ Fri, 23 Aug 2019 - 21:26) *
One side is restricted waiting, the other a mix of res parking bays, yellow lines and, according to GSV, unenforceable bays(because they're not signed).

As the contravention relates to waiting, then according to your account you must have been parked on the side with bays and yellow lines and moved out of a bay in order to move off the road - although if you have off-road space available then why were you not parked there in the first place ?? Anyway, we need to see their photos please - you should have these by now as this happened a month ago. We would expect to see your car straddled across a bay and SYL opp no. 18.

But will we? (I cannot make out any detail from the photos in their letter)


Resident Parking bays have the signs near the bay except for the one that I parked at.
I was parked in the bay initially but when I tried to reverse, the gear wouldn't engage but due to the slight inclination, the car moved backwards and no further. Hence I ended up out of the box and onto the yellow line.
Had to make use of the bay for the day as work was getting done in the house.

Whoops! Forgot to get the photos in the first post. Updated it now.

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flamer
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 09:16
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Anyone able to help? Anything that can help me win this?
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hcandersen
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 10:44
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OP, are you the owner of the vehicle?

Only the owner is liable and the next step is that they would receive a Notice to Owner.

The authority are not asking you to re-open the whole challenge, they have asked you for evidence of breakdown - and quite right of them to do so. So, over to you. Evidence could take several forms including a mechanic's report. I would not tell the authority that the car was driven to Heathrow 2 days later - unlawfully IMO if you could not engage reverse gear.

So, as the car has not been fixed perhaps a report from competent person might work.

And I would add with this, and with a NTO if it got that far:

The authority's photos show that my car had been left committing a full house of contraventions i.e. not parked fully within a bay; parked on yellow line while restricted; and parked adjacent to a dropped footway.

This suggests that either the driver was the most inconsiderate motorist imaginable or, more likely and indeed the case, that something serious had occurred. Don't minimise what is clear in the photos, embrace them and maximise their benefit.

And pl stop this photo business, like the car it's not going anywhere and is distracting.

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DastardlyDick
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 12:18
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The photo's are not mandatory, so going on about time stamps etc. on them is a dead end.
Just send the Council the evidence they've requested i.e an Invoice for repairs etc.
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 25 Aug 2019 - 13:27
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OP----On the basis of the present information I would advise that you settle at the discount.
The Council is not going to budge unless there is proof of repairs having been undertaken or something like an AA/RAC report saying the car is kaput and not worth fixing. They are not going to accept something from "Joe round the corner--who does car repairs" unless it's on headed paper with a VAT registered number.

If your case gets to adjudication you will be beset with the same problem in that you cannot provide proper evidence of a broken down vehicle.

If you had a dated video of friends and family pushing the vehicle into the driveway that might help.


Mick
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cp8759
post Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 16:25
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The PCN was issued on 29 July. How did the car get to Heathrow Airport on 1st August?

This post has been edited by cp8759: Mon, 26 Aug 2019 - 16:25


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