PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Car or van for BIK tax purposes
Figaro
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 22:36
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 375
Joined: 8 Feb 2006
Member No.: 4,803



Evening all. Here’s an interesting and perhaps unanswerable set of questions relating to company car tax, benefit in kind and light commercial vehicle status etc.

I currently have a company car that is also available for personal use. I am an employee, on PAYE, and do the regular P11D declaration for may annual tax return.

Due to health and safety assemment at work we need to change our vehicles to be safer when carrying the equipment we use to do our jobs. Generally these are a set of 10 to 30 kg pelican case type boxes. In my current car I have to put all seats down and sometimes double stack the boxes and I do indeed consider it unsafe.

I’ll cut to the chase, we have identified the VW Transporter Kombi T32 2.0BiTDI 204PS EU6 BMT 7-speed DSG as a good candidate and we are unsure, due to some rumour and intrigue, as to whether this would be taxed as a car or a light commercial vehicle.

This particular vehicle has a payload of more than 1000kg and it is this particular fact that often tips the classification of a vehicle from car to LCV for company vehicle tax purposes. It is understood anything below 1000kg payload will be classified as a car, over 1000kg and you’re in with a shout.

The link here summarises much better than I can from my iPad...

link to external site for info

I can’t recall if links are allowed so if not please mod delete and just search google for “coca cola Kombi van court case” and read many of the results that describe the situation.

It’s a big deal for me as the regular company car tax on this vehicle would be prohibitive. The VW commercial van centre assured me the 6 guys using these vans as their company vehicles pay LCV fixed rate BIK tax.

I called the local tax office about a similar question for Ford transit custom vans and two things were of significant note to me. The rather bored sounding lady said “any transit van is a van for tax purposes” and “all these calls are recorded and anything we discuss is noted on your account and will be applicable to anything in the future”. I know the VW transporter isn’t a ford transit but maybe the safest thing to do is call the tax office, ask about the very specific VW model we’re after and get it recorded onto my notes?

Another big worry is that HMRC change the rules while I’m into a three year lease at work and I end up going from LCV rate to car rate. This would be many hundreds of pounds extra per month.

Cheers in advance for the replies...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 9)
Advertisement
post Mon, 17 Sep 2018 - 22:36
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
jezt
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 07:17
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 46
Joined: 8 Dec 2011
From: Bristol, UK
Member No.: 51,661



Pretty sure it's to do with; is it a car derived van, or a van derived car? I may be wrong, but I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will be along shortly.
And I reckon the rather bored-sounding HMRC lady used 'Transit' as a generic term for a Transit-style van.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 07:43
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,200
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Its nothing to do with CDV AIUI.

As you note light commercials carry a lower tax burden than an otherwise similar (price etc) car and this has lead a number of people to get pickups to get a car for less tax burden (I heard they were doing away with the tax break though due to the abuse, not sure if that went ahead).

This link doesn’t seem to differentiate ( http://cccfcalculator.hmrc.gov.uk/CCF0.aspx )



--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Slapdash
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 08:40
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,864
Joined: 2 Aug 2016
Member No.: 86,040



It can be different things for different purposes.

Given a T5 Kombi has already been found to be a car for P11D purposes that does suggest it will be a struggle. The fact that it is marketed as an MPV also points towards car.

The helpline may say "van". But they are offering an opinion - though if you can get it in writing that will carry some weight at a FTT but is not a guarenteed win.

You can try asking for a formal decision. Though I would not hold much hope of actually getting one.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
glasgow_bhoy
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 17:17
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 10,460
Joined: 8 Sep 2008
Member No.: 22,424



Why not play it safe and get a pickup? The Amarok is lovely, although the Hilux is brilliant to drive and exceptionally comfy on long trips.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Figaro
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 23:32
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 375
Joined: 8 Feb 2006
Member No.: 4,803



Good question GB, many reasons.

The equipment we lift is quite heavy and we often do it on our own, the high bed of these pickups is a consideration. Also it is actually quite inconvenient, almost impossible In fact, to reach to the back of a covered pickup bed for a small box that is right at the back.
I have three kids and readily admit the vehicle will be used for private mileage and I’m after something with more room, specifically three equally sized seats, in the back.
The VW transporter is way more refined than the pickups and even more flexible for occasions where we may have to take eve more kit than usual for example at exhibitions
I do about 25k miles per year, a lot of it without kit too and the VW is nicer for that task, as well as being able to take customers or colleagues on and off sites etc.

As it happens I’m trialling a ford s-max in a week or so. These cars have the seating I’m after and are very flexible. There is also a removable aftermarket grill that fits into factory fitted fixing locations behind the front two seats. This might turn out to be ok but the BIK as a regular company car is bad as the Ford engines are very co2 emitting and the cost is high. It deffo wouldn’t be my first choice of car form a BIK perspective but may end up with it and hoping company would compensate me more for the weird choice of car form a tax perspective.

This is turning into a massive headache. We need the vehicles to be safe. Our contracts state we get a company car for personal use so standard two seat vans would not be fit for family purposes. A car and a van for business only would not be practical and also expensive. Pool vans inconvenient for the further flung employees who couldn’t travel to swap car for van for demo purposes. Company will not let us opt out of company car scheme and allow us to run our own vehicles suitable for the job, such as a VW Kombi.

I think I will call the LOCAL tax office for starters and see what they say. No guarantees of course but it’s a starter.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 09:29
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,200
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Have a look at some Crossover SUV's, many can be had with secure rear stowage partitions (as can some estates, my old 3-series 'touring' had a full structural back seat and up to the roof cargo net as standard).

That's a Discovery Sport, LR accesory.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Figaro
post Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 15:36
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 375
Joined: 8 Feb 2006
Member No.: 4,803



Cheers Rookie

I currently have a Mitsubishi Outlander and we need something that's capable of carrying boxes up to 1600mm long behind a secure bulkhead of some description. This means rear seats down for pretty much any car / SUV which then precludes most of them due to the lack of guarding behind the front seats. The S-Max guard here is currently the only car guard that works for us as it is removable using the car's standard fixing systems.



Ford accessories

The vehicle we need has to have the ability to carry 5 people at times when we're not carrying a load, or in the case of a van, 5 people and a load.

I'm going to call the tax office about the VW Transporter Kombi.

Welcome to any further suggestions though.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 17:48
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56,200
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



Not sure if the 3 series touring still does it but mine had a structural cargo net that could be erected behind the front seats (e46, 2004 admittedly)


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Figaro
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 14:52
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 375
Joined: 8 Feb 2006
Member No.: 4,803



Cheers Rookie. I had a look but can't seem to find anything on the Beemer 3 series any more.

I called the tax office and they told me they don't have any 'drop down' lists to check vehicles against and in fact they go by whatever the company advises on the P11D form. So if I switched from a car to a van the P11D would reflect this and that would be that. I reiterated the current 'confusion' regarding dual purpose vehicles and he mentioned the payload as one of the factors. There is no definitive current published info on this so the fact the payload is greater than 1000kg, the EU log book classification for the T32 is N1 (Light Commercial Vehicle) the Government VCA fuel data website classes it as a Medium Van the P11D would be filled in as a LCV.

If my company is not known for making many mistakes it is unlikely to be audited and this will just sail through according to the advisor.

So, i'm still a bit worried frankly, but will see if i can get some assurances from my employer that they will 'work with me' in the event of an HMRC ruling that it is a car not an LCV if i get one.

I'll keep this thread posted.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 29th March 2024 - 11:48
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here