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Cut a Bit Of Slack For Delivery Drivers, Ill get my Hat!!
Ziggyplayedguita...
post Sat, 25 Sep 2021 - 11:42
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So...delivery drivers are in short supply.....predictable.


I had a Van Delivery Job and had to jack it because of the amount of points I was totting up!!I loved the job.It was night work.


Obviously being on the road 10 hours a day left me more prone to points be they speed limit traps or traffic lights to name but two.I fear for this country if we dont do something huh.gif


Im not expecting too much sympathy??
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post Sat, 25 Sep 2021 - 11:42
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Steve_999
post Sat, 25 Sep 2021 - 12:05
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QUOTE (Ziggyplayedguitar2 @ Sat, 25 Sep 2021 - 12:42) *
. . . . . . I fear for this country if we dont do something huh.gif

Im not expecting too much sympathy??


Do something such as stop at red lights and obey the speed limit? Not sure what you want "us" (the country?) to do.
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cp8759
post Sat, 25 Sep 2021 - 14:18
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Most delivery drivers don't seem to have this problem?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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andy_foster
post Mon, 27 Sep 2021 - 07:33
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I can see the OP's point - if you focus on the luck element of getting caught speeding, a driver who drives 12,000 miles a year might be unlikely to faced totting issues, whereas a driver driving 120,000 miles a year is 10 times as likely to be "unlucky".

In respect of drifting up to the threshold speed whilst keeping up with the flow of traffic and being pinged by a camera van too far away to be seen, I have a degree of sympathy. Traffic lights, not so much.


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The Rookie
post Mon, 27 Sep 2021 - 08:46
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Most modern cars have speed limiters. Mine has an adaptive limiter which automatically adjusts the limiter for the speed limit it thinks prevails (not perfect for sure) and also warns of all fixed red light and speed cameras.. You can also use GPS systems to give overspeed/camera alerts. Things are there to help you.

While I do have some sympathy for high mileage drivers under the totting system (that they are both more likely to tot and a fixed term ban is proportionately harsher), trying to think of a fairer system leaves me struggling to come up with one that would work. And we certainly need such a system or the very rich just treat enforcement as a minor inconvenience.


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cp8759
post Mon, 27 Sep 2021 - 14:04
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Mon, 27 Sep 2021 - 08:33) *
I can see the OP's point - if you focus on the luck element of getting caught speeding, a driver who drives 12,000 miles a year might be unlikely to faced totting issues, whereas a driver driving 120,000 miles a year is 10 times as likely to be "unlucky".

Well yes, but if you focus on the fact that people shouldn't be speeding then the system works perfectly. The more miles you travel in excess of the speed limit, the more likely you are to get caught. The correct solution is to campaign for higher speed limits, but most people who complain about speed enforcement can't be asked to do that.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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Ziggyplayedguita...
post Tue, 28 Sep 2021 - 09:37
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[quote name='andy_foster' date='Mon, 27 Sep 2021 - 08:33' post='1665157']
I can see the OP's point - if you focus on the luck element of getting caught speeding, a driver who drives 12,000 miles a year might be unlikely to faced totting issues, whereas a driver driving 120,000 miles a year is 10 times as likely to be "unlucky".


Yeah....thanks for that....didnt expect much support!!


It just all seems a little unfair.I worked all through the Pandemic delivering milk for schools and businesses overnight.I have now had to limit my driving to personal and driving to the nearest workplace possible.I am in fact now a nervous wreck behind the wheel.I am more of a hazard now than when I didnt have all the points.In November the gloom lifts for me tho.
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andy_foster
post Tue, 28 Sep 2021 - 19:34
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As this is the Flame Pit, I'll throw in a bit of unsolicited advice - do something to avoid getting caught speeding (or at least substantially lower the risk of being unlucky).

Get (and use) a satnav with camera warnings and warnings when you exceed the speed limit (or exceed by a certain threshold). Use cruise control to stop yourself inadvertently speeding up (technically a speed limiter would do that, and cruise won't stop you picking up speed on a steep downhill, but cruise is often sufficient). Look out for speed limit signs (and know the limits for the class of vehicle you are driving). Join the IAM - sticking to speed limits isn't overly difficult if you practice. On my IAM test (bike) I was followed by a police officer for about 1 1/2 hours and sat pretty much bang on the speed limit(s) for the whole time. Staying within the limit is child's play compared to staying on the limit.

As per the site rules (which apply to varying degrees to the Flame Pit), if you want sympathy, go to mumsnet.


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southpaw82
post Tue, 28 Sep 2021 - 19:44
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Tue, 28 Sep 2021 - 20:34) *
As this is the Flame Pit

Pity this is Government Policy then…


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 28 Sep 2021 - 22:00
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Tue, 28 Sep 2021 - 20:34) *
Get (and use) a satnav with camera warnings and warnings

Or use Google Maps or Waze, where people report mobile cameras in real time too. They seem to go on very quickly, quite possibly faster then they can park and set up.

Maybe extra freebie points will be a selling point of road pricing when it comes in. You start out with a six point allowance and you get three more points for every 10k miles you buy.
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cp8759
post Wed, 29 Sep 2021 - 00:00
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Tue, 28 Sep 2021 - 23:00) *
You start out with a six point allowance and you get three more points for every 10k miles you buy.

So a millionaire just buys 3 million miles (1200 points) and he can safely do 96 in a 70 as much as he likes?

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 - 23:29


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law. Section 6 of the Interpretation Act 1978 applies to everything I post as it would apply to an Act of Parliament. I am a Conservative party member, this means some people think I am "scum". No, I am not a lawyer. I do not charge any fees, please stop asking me what my fees are.
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 30 Sep 2021 - 01:17
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 29 Sep 2021 - 01:00) *
QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Tue, 28 Sep 2021 - 23:00) *
You start out with a six point allowance and you get three more points for every 10k miles you buy.

So a millionaire just buys 3 million miles (,1200 points) and he can safely do 96 in a 70 as much as he likes?

Road pricing is billed on roads you *have* driven on, because the price depends on how busy the road is. But yes, if you are so rich you can afford to contribute to the exchequer by driving around the M25 84 times, then you get a freebie (£100 p&p) speeding offence up to 95mph in NSL on Rishi Sunah.

Enjoy. You've earned it.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 - 01:19
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Ziggyplayedguita...
post Thu, 30 Sep 2021 - 09:31
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None of the other solutions would work.


Its at sentencing where it would work.Judges have the right to exercise Common Sense.I was working through the night(nobody around) to deliver milk ....I'm 63 not a boy racer....pursued at every opportunity by the control room.I hasten to add I have not been to court regarding this as I still have a licence clear enough to drive legally (atm anyway).


I know of many hardship cases where friends of mine have got off...some have blatantly lied about their circumstances.They were not drivers on the roads for 60 hours a week ??
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 30 Sep 2021 - 11:11
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Drivers always tend to exaggerate what they do, and it's no 60 hours a week. Professional drivers should be more aware and careful not less nor shoild they expect special treatment It should be harsher not let me off i drive a lot so do hundreds of thousands of people.


I worked as a HGV driver for years and never had to go through a red light or get caught speeding, And if i did how would the police know if it was the first time or just a mistake. SO no you get no slack because it would just be a charter to flaunt the law


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TMC Towcester
post Fri, 1 Oct 2021 - 08:25
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The simple (if not entirely practical!) solution to the OP's dilemma, plus the whole driver shortage, would be 1. Sensible speed limits, 2. Sensible signage and 3. A higher standard of competence for all road users.

Simple to describe....never gonna happen.
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Ziggyplayedguita...
post Sat, 2 Oct 2021 - 09:48
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QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Fri, 1 Oct 2021 - 09:25) *
The simple (if not entirely practical!) solution to the OP's dilemma, plus the whole driver shortage, would be 1. Sensible speed limits, 2. Sensible signage and 3. A higher standard of competence for all road users.

Simple to describe....never gonna happen.




Bang on


QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Fri, 1 Oct 2021 - 09:25) *
The simple (if not entirely practical!) solution to the OP's dilemma, plus the whole driver shortage, would be 1. Sensible speed limits, 2. Sensible signage and 3. A higher standard of competence for all road users.

Simple to describe....never gonna happen.




Bang on
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Spandex
post Mon, 4 Oct 2021 - 16:22
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The solution, surely, is to improve conditions for drivers and remove the pressures that encourage them to make 'bad decisions' (or punish them for making good decisions). If someone is paid well and allowed to do the job in a reasonable amount of time, speeding would become much less of an issue. Not only would that remove much of the problem with speeding, but it would also hopefully encourage more people to consider it as a job which would ease the driver shortage.

It seems a little ridiculous to just accept the pressures and poor conditions drivers face as unavoidable, then try to fix the problems these things cause downstream. Obviously being a motoring forum, there's a tendency to see this as a motoring issue, but these are just the symptoms of a bigger issue.
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TMC Towcester
post Tue, 5 Oct 2021 - 07:10
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QUOTE (Spandex @ Mon, 4 Oct 2021 - 17:22) *
The solution, surely, is to improve conditions for drivers and remove the pressures that encourage them to make 'bad decisions' (or punish them for making good decisions). If someone is paid well and allowed to do the job in a reasonable amount of time, speeding would become much less of an issue. Not only would that remove much of the problem with speeding, but it would also hopefully encourage more people to consider it as a job which would ease the driver shortage.

It seems a little ridiculous to just accept the pressures and poor conditions drivers face as unavoidable, then try to fix the problems these things cause downstream. Obviously being a motoring forum, there's a tendency to see this as a motoring issue, but these are just the symptoms of a bigger issue.


Although I disagree......I don't contest the logic! 'Speeding' would seldom be an issue if the limits were sensibly set and signed? I defy even the most lycra-clad ctcling loony to argue every single limit makes absolute sense or indeed than foliage never obscures a sign or the sign is lost amongst a zillion others etc etc.

Sort the easy stuff first. Any limit on the possible miles travelled (legally) in a given time reduces the volume of deliveries and thus adds cost to business and the consumer.
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Spandex
post Tue, 5 Oct 2021 - 10:52
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QUOTE (TMC Towcester @ Tue, 5 Oct 2021 - 08:10) *
Although I disagree......I don't contest the logic! 'Speeding' would seldom be an issue if the limits were sensibly set and signed? I defy even the most lycra-clad ctcling loony to argue every single limit makes absolute sense or indeed than foliage never obscures a sign or the sign is lost amongst a zillion others etc etc.

Sort the easy stuff first. Any limit on the possible miles travelled (legally) in a given time reduces the volume of deliveries and thus adds cost to business and the consumer.

The existence of poorly chosen speed limits or bad signage is probably a given. But equally, I would expect the majority of delivery drivers to do the majority of their miles in built up areas (because that's where houses are) where a 30 limit is appropriate and signage unnecessary.

From a logical point of view, it makes sense to address the issue that affects every mile a driver does (his pay and working conditions - both famously and indisputably bad) rather than fix the odd road here and there that affects only a small portion of their driving, but coincidentally also happens to be something you want fixed anyway.
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TMC Towcester
post Tue, 5 Oct 2021 - 11:02
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Many 'built-up' areas have arterial roads with lunatic limits, indeed more remote and rural places are arguably more reliant on home delivery due to lcak of alternatives. One also wonders how the good get to the built-up areas from the out-of-town distribution centres.

I acknowledge your optimism (or myopia) that only a small proportion of roads have implausible speed limits, poor signage and that the standard of competence of road users is generally of an acceptable standard. I'd say one of the three (at least) inhabits pretty much every road with road users on it!

We must inhabit entirely different Worlds where road transport is concerned!
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