Police powers to detain |
Police powers to detain |
Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 13:43
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 11 Oct 2019 Member No.: 106,127 |
Am I right in saying the police don't actually have any powers to detain anyone unless they are arresting them, apart from in a few special instances?
1. You are subject to a stop and search. 2. You are about to or have committed a breach of the peace. 3. A search of your premises is being carried out and you have to be detained to not interfere with the police in carrying out their duty. (This is not clear cut by any means) Is this correct? If not, could someone point me to the relevant legislation please? This post has been edited by Petraki: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 13:57 |
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Fri, 11 Oct 2019 - 13:43
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Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 10:02
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#41
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
If the offence is indictable and they necessity reasons are under PACE are met then the PCSO can use reasonable force under Section 3 Criminal Law Act 1967 to arrest the wrongdoer so that they can retain them until a PC arrives. If the offence is indictable and the necessity reasons under PACE are met then every Tom Dick and Harry can effect an arrest under section 24A. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Guest_Charlie1010_* |
Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 13:18
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#42
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Guests |
Good.
Well done. Detain can be different to arrest. Thanks. |
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Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 14:39
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#43
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
This power to detain is without force and a PCSO can not put hands on to prevent the wrongdoer from leaving until constable arrives. That’s not what the Police Reform Act 2002, Schedule 5, Part 1, para 4 says - entitled “power to use reasonable force to detain person”. It’s why BTP (at least) issue their CSOs with handcuffs. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Guest_Charlie1010_* |
Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 14:43
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#44
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Guests |
Thank you for the clarification.
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Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 15:28
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#45
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Member Group: Members Posts: 951 Joined: 17 Aug 2010 Member No.: 39,849 |
Is it just me or do discussion on rights when dealing with the police conjure up visions of people talking themselves into trouble? Not visions alas.... Reality unfortunately. Amusing though... mostly. Last weeks offering was a male who had been detained for a step and search. I arrived once that was all done and dusted so I wasn’t “present” so I’m not involved. He demanded my details (despite being able to read them ion my tac vest) I declined. “My dad is a barrister, I know my rights, you must tell me who you are”. My reply “my dad helped build Concorde but I don’t know it’s take off weight” He then said it was on Facebook so it must be true.... |
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Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 15:40
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#46
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Not visions alas.... Reality unfortunately. Conversation outside a nightclub many years ago: Numpty 1 to Numpty 2: “the cops have to give you a warning before they can arrest you for public order” N2: “issit?” N1: “yeah watch” - approaches yours truly - “ay, f**k off pig!” Me: “you’re under arrest for being drunk and disorderly” N1: “you can’t do that!” Ratcheting of cuffs... Section 5 of the POA isn’t the only tool in the armoury and a little knowledge is a dangerous thing... -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 16:24
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#47
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Member Group: Members Posts: 25,726 Joined: 28 Jun 2010 From: Area 51 Member No.: 38,559 |
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Fri, 18 Oct 2019 - 17:16
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#48
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Webmaster Group: Root Admin Posts: 8,205 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wokingham, UK Member No.: 2 |
Not visions alas.... Reality unfortunately. Conversation outside a nightclub many years ago:...……….. Many of the fly on the wall TV cop shows amply illustrate that similar still happens. It's probably because they reckon that police (and other government employees for that matter) are about the only group they can subject to that kind of abuse nowadays without risking a large bill for restorative dental work. Back in the '70s when I were a lad, however, I don't think they'd have been so keen to chance it. -------------------- Regards,
Fredd __________________________________________________________________________
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Sat, 19 Oct 2019 - 03:18
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#49
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,198 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
a little knowledge is a dangerous thing... Invariably it seems more so than no knowledge at all...... -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 07:01
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#50
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 11 Oct 2019 Member No.: 106,127 |
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...-officer-powers It does. Power to detain: A PCSO has the Power to detain a person whom a PCSO has reason to believe has committed a relevant offence and who fails to comply with a requirement to give name and address or who gives an answer which the PCSO reasonably suspects to be false or inaccurate for up to 30 minutes or until the arrival of a police officer (or to accompany that person to a police station if he or she elects to do so on request). Paragraph 2 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002. This power to detain is without force and a PCSO can not put hands on to prevent the wrongdoer from leaving until constable arrives. Refusing to give details after committing a relevant offence is an offence in itself and is summary only (fine). If the offence is indictable and they necessity reasons are under PACE are met then the PCSO can use reasonable force under Section 3 Criminal Law Act 1967 to arrest the wrongdoer so that they can retain them until a PC arrives. I stand corrected. Does that mean PCSO's actually have more powers than police in some instances or have I understood it wrong? |
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Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 09:06
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#51
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...-officer-powers It does. Power to detain: A PCSO has the Power to detain a person whom a PCSO has reason to believe has committed a relevant offence and who fails to comply with a requirement to give name and address or who gives an answer which the PCSO reasonably suspects to be false or inaccurate for up to 30 minutes or until the arrival of a police officer (or to accompany that person to a police station if he or she elects to do so on request). Paragraph 2 of Schedule 4 to the Police Reform Act 2002. This power to detain is without force and a PCSO can not put hands on to prevent the wrongdoer from leaving until constable arrives. Refusing to give details after committing a relevant offence is an offence in itself and is summary only (fine). If the offence is indictable and they necessity reasons are under PACE are met then the PCSO can use reasonable force under Section 3 Criminal Law Act 1967 to arrest the wrongdoer so that they can retain them until a PC arrives. I stand corrected. Does that mean PCSO's actually have more powers than police in some instances or have I understood it wrong? Very wrong. The guidance is also flawed. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Guest_Charlie1010_* |
Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 10:13
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#52
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Guests |
Care to enlighten us master?
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Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 10:27
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#53
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Post #43
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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Guest_Charlie1010_* |
Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 10:58
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#54
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Guests |
Thanks. I thought you had more to add.
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Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:20
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#55
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 11 Oct 2019 Member No.: 106,127 |
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Mon, 21 Oct 2019 - 11:52
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#56
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Thanks. I thought you had more to add. It was the one that stood out to me. CSOs’ powers can be found in the Police Reform Act 2002. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Tue, 22 Oct 2019 - 13:15
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#57
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Member Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: 11 Oct 2019 Member No.: 106,127 |
Thanks. I thought you had more to add. It was the one that stood out to me. CSOs’ powers can be found in the Police Reform Act 2002. It seems they can only detain you, or use 'reasonable force' to detain you if they've been granted such powers by the relevant local authority, which will be shown on their designation card. |
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Tue, 22 Oct 2019 - 15:23
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#58
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Thanks. I thought you had more to add. It was the one that stood out to me. CSOs’ powers can be found in the Police Reform Act 2002. It seems they can only detain you, or use 'reasonable force' to detain you if they've been granted such powers by the relevant local authority, which will be shown on their designation card. CSOs don’t work for a local authority (other than being employed by a police authority). Are you not looking at accredited persons? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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