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Jlc
Posted on: Today, 15:40


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With a totting ban in the offing then I think it’s worth seeking professional advice.

Of course there’s a potential defence - convincing the bench is the tricky part. As Rookie noted there are angles.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1812160 · Replies: 20 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Today, 14:12


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QUOTE (Bruce18 @ Thu, 28 Mar 2024 - 13:49) *
The first was a NIP and the second was a final reminder.

It would be unusual for 2 pieces of correctly addressed post to go missing (on the assumption they were posted of course).

QUOTE (Bruce18 @ Thu, 28 Mar 2024 - 10:50) *
The issue is that my husband already has 9 points so if he receives 6 points for being unable to defend the 172 then he will receive a ban right?

Assuming the points are within the last 3 years (based on date of offence) then yes, he will tot. He can submit an exceptional hardship plea to reduce the 6 months ban, potentially to none. (But note that exceptional is truly that)

If he pleads guilty to the s172 then he will tot - the fine/costs/surcharge are likely to be c.£500.

Pleading not guilty and being subsequently found guilty will result in the totting and a bill c.£1,000.

I would assume the XXXX is from their template where they haven't updated it with the actual dates. It would be likely that they can evidence these dates. It's sloppy but may not provide a defence in itself.

Is there any history of postal issues recently?

QUOTE (Manx_Tom @ Thu, 28 Mar 2024 - 14:09) *
Just one thing. The witness statement refers to the date the original NIP was sent out and confirms that it was sent out within 14 days of the offence, but I don't think you've told us when the offence was committed. According to the witness statement, how many days after the offence was the original NIP sent to your husband? Was it as long as 14 days or was it no more than 12 days?

...which doesn't matter for a s172 request of course.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1812141 · Replies: 20 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Today, 14:01


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What's the issue date?
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1812138 · Replies: 6 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Yesterday, 22:24


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I'm a little confused as the majority of your post says 'we'.

There is no 'we'.

From what I can gather is that they are prosecuting your husband when you were driving?

If so, there is little room for manoeuvre. (Especially if it's close to or past the limitation period - 6 months)

If the defendant was not driving then they would have to either accept or defend the s172. (If the defendant was driving then a ‘plea bargain' is possible but not here)

Is the V5C 100% correct? Don't guess, check.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1812067 · Replies: 20 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Yesterday, 12:01


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QUOTE (poorthing @ Wed, 27 Mar 2024 - 11:19) *
2) Would the photographic evidence show me who was driving the car?

Unlikely - but that's no defence. Any photos are to show the vehicle and the offence.

QUOTE (poorthing @ Wed, 27 Mar 2024 - 11:19) *
3) It would not seem right that one just accepts responsibility with no photographic evidence?

At this stage it's an allegation. Strictly you are not entitled to any evidence. (Although they often supply non-evidential photo's)

QUOTE (poorthing @ Wed, 27 Mar 2024 - 11:19) *
1) What should I do now? Should I complete the NIP even though I'm not sure I drove on that road?

Upon receiving the request you are expected to use reasonable diligence to identify the driver. As such, any photos are not strictly part of that process (although I understand the desire).

If you do not know who was driving and cannot identify them with the aforementioned diligence then you have the option to defend at court. If you cannot convince the bench then you'll get 6 points and little change, if any, out of £1,000.

Of course, there are many possibilities. Remember at the moment it's only the vehicle they have identified (assuming it is indeed your vehicle) - perhaps someone else was driving?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1812005 · Replies: 6 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 - 20:35


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If the NIP was dated to arrived within 14 days then it's presumed delivered (on time) unless you can rebut that.

Regardless, the s172 (name the driver) request is valid as not subject to the 14 day requirement.

If you wanted to challenge a 'late' NIP then you are likely to need something substantial to show the late delivery.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1811970 · Replies: 6 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Tue, 26 Mar 2024 - 16:27


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That GSV picture is 2 years old - what is the actual current signage?

I wouldn't be surprised if it's now 2 hours.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1811960 · Replies: 3 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Mon, 25 Mar 2024 - 19:43


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Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Parking Charge Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, to give the notice of keeper liability in the format prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1811947 · Replies: 7 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 - 22:49


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IPC members.. No POPLA…
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1811812 · Replies: 8 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Sat, 23 Mar 2024 - 11:20


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If you can't get it cancelled then there's a fair chance Excel will eventually sue.

However, I would struggle to see the commercial justification for charging genuine customers £100 when they have met prerequisites to not pay the £1.

But that's how these parking companies operate - sharp practices knowing that most will relent now or when sued.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1811779 · Replies: 15 · Views: 0

Jlc
Posted on: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 - 11:53


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QUOTE (LifeIsTooShortForThis @ Fri, 15 Mar 2024 - 09:09) *
If the DVLA didnt give out details for a fee the whole parking industry would collapse overnight.

True, but being a member of an ATA means you are 'trusted'. Oh, as long as you hand over £2.50.

QUOTE (LifeIsTooShortForThis @ Fri, 15 Mar 2024 - 09:09) *
£2.6bn in fines?! wtf!

Not fines, but nevertheless a lot of charges...
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1811668 · Replies: 23 · Views: 301

Jlc
Posted on: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 - 11:51


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QUOTE (kggf @ Thu, 14 Mar 2024 - 19:08) *
I just hate the fact the DVLA are happy to give personal information to these money grabbing gits!!!

At £2.50 a shot you can understand...
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1811667 · Replies: 10 · Views: 141

Jlc
Posted on: Fri, 15 Mar 2024 - 11:50


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Horizon are easy to beat.

If the PCN was issued after 14 days send them:


Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc



If not:

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Parking Charge Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, to give the notice of keeper liability in the format prescribed by section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc



You can appeal online - ensure as the KEEPER. They will cancel after about 2-3 days.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1811666 · Replies: 6 · Views: 63

Jlc
Posted on: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 16:05


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QUOTE (Only6659 @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 15:51) *
Any suggestions if i should contest it or is there no point as the time between the start of the insurance and allegation on paper is 1 min.

If you can prove you had valid insurance at the material time then why wouldn't you 'contest' it? (Indeed, you may not need to go to court if you supply the proof to them now)
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1811417 · Replies: 22 · Views: 736

Jlc
Posted on: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 16:03


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QUOTE (collateral001 @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 15:37) *
Do i not have 28 days from the final reminder to challenge. If now, after i provide my details will i be able to challenge it?

You will only be able to 'challenge' a speeding offence at court. The Police are extremely unlikely to rescind it (unless there's a clear and obvious error).

...but as already noted if you are prosecuted for failing to furnish then the specific details of the offence itself are irrelevant. (i.e. you can only challenge the underlying offence at court if the driver is named)
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1811416 · Replies: 21 · Views: 1,143

Jlc
Posted on: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 15:34


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QUOTE (kggf @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 15:18) *
Images below, I was not the driver, but the driver was with the vehicle the whole time. Although you can't see the time in the two photos, I checked online and they do show the time waiting which was around an hour.

They claim to have complied with PoFA so can pursue the keeper for the driver's unpaid parking charge. But I do not see a period of parking? But if the driver did not pay then it seems likely there was a breach of contract?

In general, a driver can accept a parking contract by conduct if they had the opportunity to read the signs. (Waiting in a car for an hour would seem to indicate they could have taken that opportunity)

QUOTE (kggf @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 15:18) *
Anything that can be done.

Not via the parking company. Will Planet Ice help? (Depends on the circumstances)
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1811409 · Replies: 10 · Views: 141

Jlc
Posted on: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 15:28


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QUOTE (Lookingforguidance27 @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 14:40) *
Do you put forward mitigating circumstances if not trying to prove hardship?

You haven't mentioned what the offence is? (And what mitigation you believe you have)
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1811407 · Replies: 5 · Views: 257

Jlc
Posted on: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 15:27


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QUOTE (collateral001 @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 15:08) *
Does that mean even if there is a challenge of the cameras working properly or not etc > Since it was a temporary spped restriction - roadworks camera) i still have no challenge?

If you are prosecuted for failing to furnish (driver's details) then the how the camera's were operating is irrelevant.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1811406 · Replies: 21 · Views: 1,143

Jlc
Posted on: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 14:12


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QUOTE (Bill Door @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 11:30) *
I'm at a loss now as to whether I should respond to the NIP now or wait.

There's little difference as long as you do reply with the statutory period. The only advantage of leaving it for a while is delaying the inevitable payment of the CoFP.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1811397 · Replies: 24 · Views: 742

Jlc
Posted on: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 09:23


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QUOTE (EssexGB @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 05:38) *
I was under the impression when business is closed in the evening than there should not be an issue for parking for few minutes in the evening as we have always been doing..

You're under the wrong impression. On private land you have to abide by the signs. It seems the alleged contract was breached - there's probably sufficient consideration period too.

QUOTE (EssexGB @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 05:38) *
Is it worth challenging the PCN?

Yes.

Someone eager on the CCTV has typed in the wrong information on the NtK. The period of parking is clearly incorrect and I'd argue they've failed PoFA because of it.

However, they won't cancel it. What the IAS would make of it is unsure.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1811349 · Replies: 10 · Views: 148

Jlc
Posted on: Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 07:33


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QUOTE (Sloweddown2 @ Wed, 13 Mar 2024 - 06:24) *
Seemed pointless filling out all your expenses/ household bills.

It's a band C offence, so around 1 week's relevant weekly earnings. Expenses and bills are generally not considered.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1811337 · Replies: 23 · Views: 1,443

Jlc
Posted on: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 - 21:33


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QUOTE (collateral001 @ Tue, 12 Mar 2024 - 20:54) *
If this was in 50 mile temp speed limit zone, is there anything i could ask to delay there process of sending to court etc?

As mentioned above they have 6 mnths to take action, but delaying it by not responding is probably not a good idea. I have at this point received a second notice from them asking for drivers details.

Thankyou for your help

You seem to be asking for a prosecution for failing to provide driver details? You have 28 days to respond - you can use all of that but there's no further delaying options.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1811303 · Replies: 21 · Views: 1,143

Jlc
Posted on: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 - 19:03


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QUOTE (yellowchicken @ Tue, 12 Mar 2024 - 18:55) *
... a possible denial the driving was careless.

The definition of 'careless driving' is not quite what you perhaps think it is.

It's driving below the standard expected of a safe and competent driver. 'Undertaking' could well be considered careless.

QUOTE (yellowchicken @ Tue, 12 Mar 2024 - 18:55) *
Can i see what ive done? Ive had one before for a speed camera and you can log on to see it, but not so with this. Without sounding silly the cps could have the vaguest of possibility of an offence being committed but happily send out the option for fine and points and most will roll over.

Taking to court isnt too much of a problem, ive checked the sentencing guidelines and as long as certain elements arent present then its 3-4 points and the fine will be minor as im a full time carer....but what if it were a catagory A or B, 9 points??? Surely im entitled to see what it is ive supposed to have done, without prejudice, before admitting to anything, even if it is a conditional offer.

Naming the driver is not admitting to the offence itself. Indeed, if you wanted to defend the allegation then you would have to name the driver as failing to do so is a separate offence carrying 6 points.

But to answer your question about seeing the 'evidence' prior to accepting the fixed penalty then, in short, you don't have such a right. They may divulge information if asked but they do not have to.

If you do not accept the fixed penalty then the matter progresses to court and the fixed penalty is lost.

The 'fine' may not be as 'minor' as you'd hope. If you went to a hearing, and lost, then you are likely to pick up prosecution costs over £600. There's a minimum earnings limit (I think around £130pw) and there's a surcharge of 40% of the fine too.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1811280 · Replies: 5 · Views: 427

Jlc
Posted on: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 - 15:26


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QUOTE (Bill Door @ Tue, 12 Mar 2024 - 15:15) *
I also assume that the hiding of camera vans is irrelevant.

Yup, it doesn't change the fact of (alleged) speeding...
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1811239 · Replies: 24 · Views: 742

Jlc
Posted on: Tue, 12 Mar 2024 - 14:05


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QUOTE (Bill Door @ Tue, 12 Mar 2024 - 13:49) *
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

Usual advice is to ask for a photo to 'assist in the driver identification'. (They do not have to, but often do)

However, the photo is to identify the vehicle and the offence and not necessarily the driver.

Upon receiving the request to name the driver the keeper has to use reasonable diligence to identify the driver.

If they do not know, or could not identify them with the aforementioned diligence then the matter will head to court.

If the keeper cannot convince the bench that the statutory defence applies then they'll cop 6 points and a fine/costs exceeding £1,000.

QUOTE (Bill Door @ Tue, 12 Mar 2024 - 13:49) *
We don't exceed the statutory.

Not sure what this means, but the evidence seems to show the contrary? (Keeping pace with the traffic is not a defence)
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1811224 · Replies: 24 · Views: 742

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