Lambeth Council - PCN Appeal rejected for Unloading in pedestrian zone following authorisation from parking officer |
Lambeth Council - PCN Appeal rejected for Unloading in pedestrian zone following authorisation from parking officer |
Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 16:29
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 6 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,176 |
Hi Members,
I'm new to this forum, normally when i'm issued with a PCN, i find it easier to pay than spend hours going backwards and forwards, plus most of the the time i am in the wrong anyway. However, on this occasion i'm staring down the barrel of accumulated fines to the tune of around £800. Allow me to explain. I am a self employed heating engineer/plumber and my main contract is with Greggs bakeries whose outlets are never in a 'parking friendly' area, my region is London and the southern home counties so it's the nature of the beast. During the months of Feb and March, i was contracted to carry out a bathroom/cloakroom refit in the Greggs flat about their shop in Electric Avenue, Brixton. Those of you who are familiar with the area will know that parking is extremely bad around this town and where Greggs (and a bunch of other shops are located in Elec Ave) there is literally nowhere close at all to leave a vehicle to load and unload. The whole job took around 13 days on and off and on around 10 of those days, i had materials to drop off in the morning and then return the vehicle to a pay by phone parking region. On the first morning after driving round with about 20 boxes of tiles to drop for about an hour, i stopped at a junction of a small road that led to the side entrance of Greggs which gave access to the residential flat above. To be fair, there was a notice at the entrance of the road stating : VEHICLES ARE NOT PERMITTED TO ENTER DURING OPERATIONAL HOURS WHICH ARE MON -TUES, THURS - SAT 8AM -6PM, WED 8AM -2PM (EXCEPT FOR LOADING BETWEEN 8AM -9AM AND 5PM - 6PM) The sign itself is enough to blow your mind. I sat at the junction (this was at about 11.30am) and clearly saw 2 and sometimes 3 vehicles in the road and to be honest, thought that they must be locals or regulars and gave me impression that parking was quite lax in that road. I decided to pull up into the road and literally at that time a parking officer walked around the corner. I briefly explained my situation clearing showing him my works order and pointing out the goods ready for delivery in my vehicle and where i needed to get them to. He acknowledged that i was in a predicament and verbally stated that he would allow me 10-15 mins to unload and then move my vehicle to an designated parking bay (about a quarter of a mile away) I also told him that i would be returning on and off for several weeks and he simply that if the vehicle is left there for unreasonable amount of time then neither him nor his colleagues would hesitate in giving me a ticket. I thanked him, offloaded my materials and tools for the day and moved my vehicle within about 5 mins so as to not abuse his good will. For clarification, there is no way i could carry the materials for that distance. To be fair, there were some loading bays a few hundred yards away that were consistently occupied and on may of the days, were full of concrete mixers and vans from groundwork contractors as there was major works going on at an adjacent junction. Then, about a month after, i received a PCN, then another and another up to about 10 in total all showing my vehicle turning into the restricted zone on different days taken by a camera operator!! I followed the procedure with regards appealing to the council sending copies of the official works order from Greggs, our invoice to Greggs and my letter of explanation written in a respectful manner, all as requested on the Lambeth website to back up my my statement. Fast forward to today, and i have received 2 rejection letters and no doubt the other 7 or 8 will arrive in the next few day. To be honest, i am a little surprised as to why this little side road has been designated a pedestrian zone, there are no shops on it, just back entrances to shops for loading and entrances to the row of residential flats above the shops. Also, it is a road, not a paved area the width of two cars so there is no blocking of the road (to pedestrians) if cars are parked. I know this isn't an argument. To add insult to injury, the pay per park total in nearby designated bays for the time on the job amounted to around £220 so if i have to pay all the rejection letter fines when they come back, that will amount to around £1000. On the appeal form, it states that if you are appealing under the loading/unloading section, you need to provide supporting documents such as the ones i sent over. Plus i also sent over my Gas Safe Certificate and copy of Public Liability Policy. There can be no doubt that i haven't fabricated my story so taking into account i have submitted what they have asked for, i'm guessing that asking for all that is simply a technicality and they probably don't even ponder the reasons of the appeal. I am now thinking that the parking officer knew that i would be captured on camera but played it down, not saying he is guilty of entrapment but had he explained that even if he allowed me some breathing space, i might still be caught on camera, i would have not repeated my parking on the subsequent days. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thank you |
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Thu, 6 Jun 2019 - 16:29
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Wed, 3 Jul 2019 - 18:22
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#61
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 6 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,176 |
Hi, yes i have registered the first two that were running out of time, i will do the others tonight.
Many thanks DC |
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Tue, 9 Jul 2019 - 19:41
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#62
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 6 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,176 |
Good evening all,
I have received a note from the tribunals service stating that my case will 'come into the list for decision' on the 31st July. Would one of you kind members give me some guidance as to how to word my appeal please? Many thanks in advance |
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Tue, 9 Jul 2019 - 20:01
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#63
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Good evening all, I have received a note from the tribunals service stating that my case will 'come into the list for decision' on the 31st July. Would one of you kind members give me some guidance as to how to word my appeal please? Many thanks in advance It's reasonable to assume the council have been notified of the appeal by now. They must upload their evidence within 7 days, if they don't, that's a procedural impropriety. Don't worry about wording your appeal, if the council contest the case, I'll just write it for you. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 17:27
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#64
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 6 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,176 |
Good evening all, I have received a note from the tribunals service stating that my case will 'come into the list for decision' on the 31st July. Would one of you kind members give me some guidance as to how to word my appeal please? Many thanks in advance It's reasonable to assume the council have been notified of the appeal by now. They must upload their evidence within 7 days, if they don't, that's a procedural impropriety. Don't worry about wording your appeal, if the council contest the case, I'll just write it for you. Many thanks CP8759, much appreciated. So, will i hear from the Tribunal service once Lambeth have upload their evidence in order to contest? |
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Thu, 11 Jul 2019 - 17:50
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#65
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
So, will i hear from the Tribunal service once Lambeth have upload their evidence in order to contest? Yes, but I would still recommend you check the tribunal website every few days just to be sure. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Fri, 12 Jul 2019 - 19:15
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#66
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 6 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,176 |
Hi guys, like a complete idiot, i have missed the deadline for my remaining appeals to the ETA. i have just read that the adjudicator has the power to extend for another 28 days, is that right ?
Thanks |
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Fri, 12 Jul 2019 - 19:36
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#67
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
Hi guys, like a complete idiot, i have missed the deadline for my remaining appeals to the ETA. i have just read that the adjudicator has the power to extend for another 28 days, is that right ? Thanks Which ones ? and by how much? -------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 12 Jul 2019 - 19:45
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#68
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 6 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,176 |
Hi, the final 6, all the NOR's are dated 10th June
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Fri, 12 Jul 2019 - 21:04
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#69
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
Not 'another 28 days', the adj has the power to accept a late appeal request without limit.
However, you MUST give some reason for lateness, as well as apologise. Heavy workload at work, out of the country, delay in getting info from authority, or whatever. |
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Sat, 13 Jul 2019 - 10:24
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#70
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 6 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,176 |
Thank you,
I have since entered my wish to appeal stating that i am waiting for documented confirmation from our client (Greggs Bakeries) that the unloading was pertaining to their property. This will be in addition to their works order. Regards |
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Sun, 14 Jul 2019 - 18:06
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#71
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Who knows whether the tribunal will accept that. You're less than a week late but it could go either way.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 16 Jul 2019 - 07:14
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#72
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 6 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,176 |
I was very lucky, the adjudicator has agreed to allow my appeal even though it was a few days late, giving a list for decision on the 12th of Aug.
Can you guys advise as to what i need to do next or do i simply wait for them to come back to me once the council has submitted their evidence? Thanks DC |
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Tue, 16 Jul 2019 - 10:14
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#73
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
At this point just wait to hear what happens next. We don't even know if the council will contest the case at this point.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Tue, 16 Jul 2019 - 14:47
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#74
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 6 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,176 |
So, i just wait to hear even though i haven't uploaded an appeal or anything to the ETA other than 'detailed information to follow'?
Thanks |
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Tue, 16 Jul 2019 - 14:49
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#75
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
So, i just wait to hear even though i haven't uploaded an appeal or anything to the ETA other than 'detailed information to follow'? Thanks Yes, if the council don't contest the case you'll win automatically so there's no point in writing war and peace when there's a chance the council might just cave in. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Wed, 17 Jul 2019 - 18:20
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#76
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 6 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,176 |
Thanks CP, i'll sit tight then.
DC |
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Wed, 24 Jul 2019 - 19:48
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#77
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 6 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,176 |
Very surprised today, received yet another PCN pertaining to the same alleged contravention but this time on the 15/03/19.
With regards to the tribunal, the date is fast approaching and i've not heard anything back yet, not sure if their usual tactic is to leave things to the last minute. Thanks |
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Mon, 29 Jul 2019 - 21:07
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#78
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Member Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 6 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,176 |
Guys,
Only 2 days until the Tribs make a decision and i've still heard nothing, obviously concerned that it'll come along at the 11th hour and catch me out completely. Should i drop them a line to check on status in case something has been sent and i've not received it? Thanks |
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Mon, 29 Jul 2019 - 21:13
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#79
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,308 Joined: 9 May 2014 Member No.: 70,515 |
QUOTE Should i drop them a line to check on status in case something has been sent and i've not received it? You can telephone tribunal in the morning - used to be helpful when PaTAS. |
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Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 06:43
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#80
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Member Group: Members Posts: 35,063 Joined: 2 Aug 2008 From: Woking Member No.: 21,551 |
the adjudicator has agreed to allow my appeal even though it was a few days late, giving a list for decision on the 12th of Aug.
On 29 July you then posted: Only 2 days until the Tribs make a decision !! Did you mean 2 Aug when you posted 12 Aug, or is it 12 Aug? As regards the 'new' PCN, you must make reps. But obviously these would be contingent upon the result of your appeal e.g. you could just include the adj's decision when (I like a bit of optimism in the morning) you succeed etc! But you cannot include it with those PCNs which are the subject of your appeal. At present the important issue is its date of issue, once we know this we could see whether you would still be within its discount periods after your appeal is heard. This post has been edited by hcandersen: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 - 06:51 |
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