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PCN for using bus lane that im entitled to use., Gloucester council / APCOA
Biggrobbie
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:04
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Good evening everyone.


Im a registered Hackney driver in Gloucester. On the 5th of october 2017 i purchased a new ehicle and it was registered straight away and plated so it was elligible to use the bus lanes. I live next to one and use almost daily. Approx the beginning of december i recieved 2 copies of the same letter from APCOA stating i had not responed to a pcn for usage of this bus lane and they were increasing the fine from sixty to ninety pounds i immediately rang the given number and told them all this and was told to email in with all the details.

2 weeksnlater i get a response that because they had not had the original PCN sent back to them as undelivered by royal mail that it was assumed delivered but they would make a goodwill gesture of reducing the fine to 60 pounds for 14 days. They also sent pictures of my taxi using the bus lane... with the proper hackney licence plate in the windscreen as it should be!

Ive spoke to the Gloucester Licensing team who say APCOA will not deal with 3rd parties and cant really help in this instance *im waiting for the head of licensing to ring me as im not happy with that response).

My question is.... is there anything i should be doing more? I have replied stating i am going to be talking to the licensing team but will not be paying anything in the meantime as the fine should never of been issued.

Many Thanks

Rob
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post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:04
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:13
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You have been issued Charge certificates. The nest document you must look out for is an order for recovery. This will allow you to make a statutory declaration that you did not receive the PCN.

This is now a process of the county court (TEC) if the SD is filed then the CC and OfR wil be revoked (it is an automatic process) and the council can the re issue the PCN
You can the follow the formal process to get the PCN cancelled.
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Biggrobbie
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:18
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Thanks for the swift reply. I shall (anxiously) await the county court papers then. 😣

Seems silly seeing as how ive supplied all the necassary licenses and certificates but hey ho 😏
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DancingDad
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:27
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The Taxi Licensing Authority cannot perhaps get any sense from Apcoa but Apcoa are but the monkees, not the organ grinder.
They are simply sub-contractors and should not be dealing with challenges at formal stage or indeed once it has gone to Charge Certificate.

There is no reason why one council department cannot talk to another and ask..."take a look at this PCN please"
Only the parking officers can make a decision and the licensing people cannot pressurise them but they can ask... the parking dept, preferably head of licensing to head of parking, not the muppets they sub contract to.

Work that route.
Also get your local councillor on board.
Again, not to challenge the PCN or interfere per se, simply to get someone in authority in the parking debt to look at the thing.

But do not ignore the official route.
Will not be court papers, will be a notice from the council called an Order for Recovery.
Can be issued any time after 14 days of the CC.
If not received in about 3 weeks, phone council and ask...where is it ??
Can get messy if you miss this one and the deadline that goes with it so be pro-active.
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Incandescent
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:28
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Gloucester are well known as one of the more venal, rapacious, thick, and stupid councils, so do stick it out. The law is that they can cancel a PCN at any stage of the enforcement process but mostly choose not to do so. Why, only they know.? They should of course, have cancelled the PCN as soon as the photos revealed your white plate. It would have taken them only a few minutes to check on the hackney cab registration.

If this gets to adjudication, I'd ask for costs as so far they would seem to have behaved vexatiously.
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Biggrobbie
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:42
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Ill agree with the opinions of Gloucester council. They arent held in the highest of regard by most hackney/private hire drivers due to their ineptness and shall we say, dubious behaviour and decisions.

Thank you everyone so far. If i dont get telephone contact with the head of licensing tommorrow i shall be going down the offices on tuesday in person.

QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:27) *
Can get messy if you miss this one and the deadline that goes with it so be pro-active.



I shall be monitoring the post for it daily. Thank you 😊
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Mad Mick V
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:45
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OP---if you use that route regularly make sure that you don't have more PCNs -- so you can deal with them together.

As noted by others, APCOA make errors on a regular basis particularly with documentation so it would be prudent to post up what you have so we can check them out.

Mick
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DancingDad
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:59
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QUOTE (Biggrobbie @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:42) *
........I shall be monitoring the post for it daily. Thank you 😊


Not just monitor post.
Phone them, ask where is it ?
If it goes missing doesn't matter, we can deal with that.
But only when it has been raised.

Gets messy about 3 weeks (IIRC) after the Order for Recovery has been sent, that is the window to sort it.
Be pro-active, phone.
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Biggrobbie
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 20:16
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:59) *
QUOTE (Biggrobbie @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:42) *
........I shall be monitoring the post for it daily. Thank you 😊


Not just monitor post.
Phone them, ask where is it ?
If it goes missing doesn't matter, we can deal with that.
But only when it has been raised.

Gets messy about 3 weeks (IIRC) after the Order for Recovery has been sent, that is the window to sort it.
Be pro-active, phone.

The second letter was dated 2nd of january and gave me 14 days to pay the "gestured" bill... so would it be on the way yet? Ill certainly ring them again tommorrow aswell as the council.

Ill scan the letters ive had so far tommorrow and post them up. 😊
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PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 21:14
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QUOTE (Biggrobbie @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 20:16) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:59) *
QUOTE (Biggrobbie @ Sun, 7 Jan 2018 - 19:42) *
........I shall be monitoring the post for it daily. Thank you 😊


Not just monitor post.
Phone them, ask where is it ?
If it goes missing doesn't matter, we can deal with that.
But only when it has been raised.

Gets messy about 3 weeks (IIRC) after the Order for Recovery has been sent, that is the window to sort it.
Be pro-active, phone.

The second letter was dated 2nd of january and gave me 14 days to pay the "gestured" bill... so would it be on the way yet? Ill certainly ring them again tommorrow aswell as the council.

Ill scan the letters ive had so far tommorrow and post them up. 😊


Don't get into an argument with them. All you need ask is has the order for recovery been issued? if not then when will it be?
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Biggrobbie
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 16:27
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Update...


Havnt posted the letters.. because they have wrote again offering yet another 14 days goodwill gesture to pay before they send the Order of Recovery. I have asked them to send this straight away as i will not be making payment. Thank you all again for you advice as its really helped me calm down a bit over it.

Also had it confirmed by the head of licensing that the vehicle is and was at the time of the pcn on the white list and the fine should never of been issued 😣

Again thank you....
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Neil B
post Thu, 11 Jan 2018 - 18:46
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Check back 3 weeks if nothing.


--------------------
17/10/11.

Sme f yu may have nticed I dn't currently have a letter ' ' n my keybard!!!!

S if I appear t be talking mre gibberish than nrmal then that's the answer - the missing 'o' --<<<< Aha, clever eh!? (reserve on-screen keyboard)
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Biggrobbie
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 13:59
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Ok latest letter... still no order of recovery... would this class as it?


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nextdoor
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 14:11
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No, it will clearly headed Order for Recovery. That looks as if it's a final reminder letter giving you a last opportunity to pay Β£90 before they issue the OfR and add Β£8 court fee.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 14:11
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No just a pre warning keep a lookout
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DancingDad
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 14:28
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Probably time to get onto councillors etc.
The parking dept is taking the pee.
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Biggrobbie
post Thu, 18 Jan 2018 - 16:53
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Again, thanks for your time and replies.

Actually managed to speak to someone at county level parking dept who seemed semi interested in looking into it. Will give her a couple days as requested then go back to her. Whilst also waiting for the stuff needed to appeal.


Laid up in bed with flu atm so may go chase some councillors down online to kill some time.
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roythebus
post Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 09:27
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I don't see why Gloucester Council need a "white list", presumably a list of Hackneys registered in their area. Surely the exemption for Hackneys to use bus lanes applies to ALL Hackneys no matter where they are licenced. Like a bus is a bus, a hackney is a hackney regardless of where it is registered! They are talking bollox.

I would also suggest they're on the verge of capitulating by ending more offers to pay a reduced amount as they know what the procedure is and know they will lose, so are trying to get their brownie points and some money.

This post has been edited by roythebus: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 09:28
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baroudeur
post Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 11:31
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 09:27) *
I don't see why Gloucester Council need a "white list", presumably a list of Hackneys registered in their area. Surely the exemption for Hackneys to use bus lanes applies to ALL Hackneys no matter where they are licenced. Like a bus is a bus, a hackney is a hackney regardless of where it is registered! They are talking bollox.

The Gloucestershire Bus Lane TRO stipulates Taxi as

"a vehicle licenced under Section 37 of the Town PoliceClauses Act 1837"

so applies to any licenced taxi but the TRO also includes private hire vehicles.

Presumably, photos from bus lane cameras would need to show the taxi plate (or private hire plate) to avoid a PCN? Many drivers remove such plates when not using the vehicle for hire.

This post has been edited by baroudeur: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 11:36
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Biggrobbie
post Fri, 19 Jan 2018 - 12:42
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Thats the best part... the photo shows the hackney plate in the front windscreen where the council ask us to put itπŸ˜‚

County council lady has just rang... the ticket has been cancelled and lots of apoligies. Asked for written confirmation but hopefully the whole silly ordeal is over with.

Thank you all for your help. Ill certainly be using these forums in the future and passing other people though here too 😊
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