Late buying ticket..Parking Charge Recieved Options

[Garfresco]

Hi,

Is it worth appealing on the below?

We arrived at the car park at 11am, fully intending to pay for the parking. However we didn't have enough change to pay for the required duration and couldn't find anywhere to get change within a short distane of the car park. We tried to pay on our phone, but the app didn't have the required time we wanted (Only offered all day parking). We then decided to pay for the minimum stay (1 hour) and go and get some change and then pay for 4 hours. However it was 20 minutes after we arrived at the car park when we bought the initial ticket.
We then eventually returned to the car park with the change and paid for 4 hours parking.
We have now recieved a "Notice to Keeper" from I Park Services Ltd in Cockermouth, asking for £60.. Reason for Issue "Failure to purchase a period of parking after being on site greater than 10 minutes"
To summarise:
We entered the car park at 11am (as per picture on the letter they sent)
Bought a one hour ticket at 11.20am
Then bought a four hour ticket at 12.19pm
We left the car park at 4.19pm (as per picture)

If there is any help anyone could offer that would be great, or if you require any information from me please let me know. Just a bit disappointed that we spent ages running round to get change, and really didnt need to bother as we got a fine anyway!

Thanks

Garf

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[Jlc]

Private car parks have to live off sharp practice to make income.

[4tf12]

So by the failure of their pay online system to give a choice of amounts this resulted in a frustration of contract. The payments eventually given meant that there had no failure to pay for the time parking

I'd be interested to know if there is anything in any legislation (e.g. Consumer Rights Act 2015) about unfair terms which could potentially cover this situation?

It doesn't take a genius to work out that not allowing you to pay for less than 24 hours parking online is done intentionally to ensure they catch out as many people as possible with their 10-minute rule, but determining whether this can be seen as illegal is another matter.

[4tf12]

Part 2, clause 63 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 states:

"Contract terms which may or must be regarded as unfair: (1)Part 1 of Schedule 2 contains an indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms of consumer contracts that may be regarded as unfair for the purposes of this Part."

Schedule 2, Part 1, clause 6 of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 includes the following in the list of terms which may be regarded as unfair:

"A term which has the object or effect of requiring a consumer who fails to fulfil his obligations under the contract to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation"

In my view, being hit with a £60-100 parking charge for taking 8 minutes too long to pay for parking (according to the obligations of the contract) is entirely disproportionate, esp. when taking into account that in most cases a driver goes on to pay for parking and may even spend less time in the car park overall than the parking purchased!

I think going down the route of the technicality with regard to the address as discussed earlier in this thred is a good first step, but if a case were to end up in court, does anyone have a view on what I've said above?

[Garfresco]

Sorry to go back to an old thread, I'm still debating whether to appeal or not

With regard to this point

"If that is all they have given the they have failed POFA 9 (2) (a), not specified relevant land. A single post code is insufficient"


There is another private car park with the same post code, will this help my case at all?

Would I be best to enter the appeal online, so they can't say its been lost in the post.

[The Rookie]

Yes of course, as the keeper you don't necessarily know which car park was used by the driver, the Notice to Keeper MUST allow the keeper to contest the charge, you can't if you don't know which car park it is! That's implicit in the regulations.

[Garfresco]

Specially for you, one of my regular letters suitably amended. I'd lose those details in your last post

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give the location of the relevant land as required by section 9 (2) (a) of the Act. I cannot, as the keeper determine the location of the alleged breach of your conditions by the wide area covered by the post code you have given and i am therefore unable to challenge your invoice. The wide area includes both private and public areas , public areas where I would have no liabilities

You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


First class post with free certificate of posting from any post office.

Delay sending so that it doesn't arrive before day 13 so that they can't correct and resend within the relevant period.

Thanks again for this letter. We sent the appeal last night and recieved an email this morning advising the ticket was cancelled "as a gesture of goodwill"

And thanks to all others that have contributed assistance on this thread

[Garfresco]

Specially for you, one of my regular letters suitably amended. I'd lose those details in your last post

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give the location of the relevant land as required by section 9 (2) (a) of the Act. I cannot, as the keeper determine the location of the alleged breach of your conditions by the wide area covered by the post code you have given and i am therefore unable to challenge your invoice. The wide area includes both private and public areas , public areas where I would have no liabilities

You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


First class post with free certificate of posting from any post office.

Delay sending so that it doesn't arrive before day 13 so that they can't correct and resend within the relevant period.

Thanks again for this letter. We sent the appeal last night and recieved an email this morning advising the ticket was cancelled "as a gesture of goodwill"

And thanks to all others that have contributed assistance on this thread

[Wardy5]

Lo and behold, I can add my name to the list of objectors for this car park!

Just had a letter today, but via my lease company which adds another layer of complexity. I've never had this on a lease vehicle before, so I'm imaging they will forward my details to the issuer.

Mine is a similar tale to the others here. Parked up, tried to pay online but only wanted to stay for 2hrs and that wasn't an available tariff, went to find change. Paid for parking...

The images I've seen online, by inputting the fine reference from my lease company paperwork, show me leaving and entering within the 2hr time window that I'd paid for.

I'll have to wait for paperwork direct from the issuer I'd imagine? I'm presuming I can't use the 'postcode defence' as the keeper (lease company) will have provided my details to the issuer??

[Jlc]

I'll have to wait for paperwork direct from the issuer I'd imagine? I'm presuming I can't use the 'postcode defence' as the keeper (lease company) will have provided my details to the issuer??

Start a new thread for advice specific to your case. (As it's different and will avoid confusion with this case)

[Wardy5]

OK, will do. Thanks.

[Blocco A Spirale]

"Failure to purchase a period of parking after being on site greater than 10 minutes" i.e. a period of parking was not purchased after 10 minutes from time of arrival on site is not the same as "failure to purchase a period of parking within 10 minutes of arrival on site".

This post has been edited by Blocco A Spirale: Mon, 28 Sep 2020 - 21:22

[Stokie1234]

Had exactly the same issue of the driver allegedly failing to buy a ticket in time and so I posted the 'failed to comply POFA2012' template letter. My original letter to keeper was a bit different in that it said Staithes Lane, Staithes, TS13 5AD. Even so Google maps shows at least 2 private car parks and several business premises with car parking all in that area. In fact Google maps shows all of these areas as being off Whitegates Close rather than Staithes Lane. In any event as keeper I have no way of knowing which land they are referring to.

However, unlike the other posters I have had a letter back saying:-
'Thank you for your appeal' - was it an appeal? As far as I was aware I was just telling them that NTK didn't apply.
They go on to say that they are 'unable to cancel the PCN as it was correctly issued and that unless I provide the keeper details they will assume that I was the driver and pursue me'.
They also say that they 'will not enter into any other correspondence' unless through the IAS appeals procedure and that I must appeal through the IAS within 21 days. They also say that if I do appeal the discounted charge will not apply.

The letter makes no reference to the points I made about the location of the car park not being correctly identified.

What is my next step please?

[Jlc]

What is my next step please?

Start a new thread as to not confuse this one.

[Beausmum]

I have good news about the Top Bank Car Park at Staithes. Thanks to the intervention of the local MP and a not very happy landowner, I Park Services Ltd have been taken to task by none other that Will Hurley of the IPC. At the moment cases where payment was made after the 10 minute deadline or where people left fairly promptly having not been able to pay, are being reexamined by Will and his team.

I'm happy to report that PCNs are being cancelled and refunds are being made! Not something we hear of very often is it?

This has been brought about by a Facebook pressure group called i-Park Services scam @ Staithes where you will find the instructions on how to appeal to the IPC and get any unfair Staithes PCNs cancelled or reimbursed.

[Jlc]

Well I'm glad an ATA doing what they should.

[Brocklebec]

Hi

I parked in this Lorton Street, Cockermouth car park just before New Year. I paid for 1 hour on entry at 11.22.. We were running late, so I went back to the car, and paid for a further hour, leaving the park at 13.10. Admittedly, it was slightly over the hour, probably around 12.30

I was shocked to receive a PCN for unauthorised parking after a paid period. So I had paid for 2 hours in two parts, and only parked for 1 hour 48 mins.

I appealed on the above grounds, but they rejected my appeal.

How pedantic can they get?

[The Rookie]

Hi

I parked in this Lorton Street, Cockermouth car park just before New Year. I paid for 1 hour on entry at 11.22.. We were running late, so I went back to the car, and paid for a further hour, leaving the park at 13.10. Admittedly, it was slightly over the hour, probably around 12.30

I was shocked to receive a PCN for unauthorised parking after a paid period. So I had paid for 2 hours in two parts, and only parked for 1 hour 48 mins.

I appealed on the above grounds, but they rejected my appeal.

How pedantic can they get?

If you want advise, please start your own thread.

Of course they rejected it, all parking companies do, where is the money in accepting?