Bus lane PCN how early can you make a left across a bus lane? Options

[Ed26]

Hi all, I've been a good boy so havnt had to use this site in a while , I recently received a pcn for entering a bus lane. I don't see anything wrong with what I did. (Simply making a left turn across a bus lane into a carwash.) can anyone give me a heads up if I'm banged to rights or if I could appeal further? Already had my 1st challenge rejected.
Pictures attached. Carwash entrance runs alongside side of white car which is half out of shot. Will post video once I receive.

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[Ed26]

Hi all, apologies i didnt check the 'enable email notificatons of replies' didnt realise i had so many, thank you. Ive now been sent the enforcement notice. Does the wording about the price of the penalty charge make sense?? Also not sure of my wording for making representation can anyone help? many thanks

[rosturra]

You might want to repost these documents - as currently they show your PCN & Vehicle Registration number.

PS Absolutely nothing wrong with that turn! Maybe include a photo, google maps image, in rep, to illustrate where the carwash is?

[stamfordman]

They have cocked up the charge certificate amount - it should be £195 not £130.

What with the lack of a contravention I can't see you losing this but you must get your appeal in in time.

[Ed26]

re post of first page with details removed

[PASTMYBEST]

They have cocked up the charge certificate amount - it should be £195 not £130.

What with the lack of a contravention I can't see you losing this but you must get your appeal in in time.

That's an Enforcement notice stamf not a charge cert. i wont even bother with the wording errors on it unless this needs to go to tribunal

[stamfordman]

They have cocked up the charge certificate amount - it should be £195 not £130.

What with the lack of a contravention I can't see you losing this but you must get your appeal in in time.

That's an Enforcement notice stamf not a charge cert. i wont even bother with the wording errors on it unless this needs to go to tribunal

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I know - but it states the CC amount as £130. Just pointing it out.

The OP must get the appeal in soon as he will get a CC.

[Ed26]

Do I just resend the appeal I sent before? In it I explained I was using the carwash and even provided a receipt. What else is there to say?

[PASTMYBEST]

Do I just resend the appeal I sent before? In it I explained I was using the carwash and even provided a receipt. What else is there to say?

You have until the 1st of May to respond. service was delayed by the Easter holiday. If it was me I would at least make reference to all the other points

Timescale for action on PCN wrong

Failing to properly consider your challenge

If you bump the thread on Monday next week i will outline them all

[Ed26]

Do I just resend the appeal I sent before? In it I explained I was using the carwash and even provided a receipt. What else is there to say?

You have until the 1st of May to respond. service was delayed by the Easter holiday. If it was me I would at least make reference to all the other points

Timescale for action on PCN wrong

Failing to properly consider your challenge

If you bump the thread on Monday next week i will outline them all

Ok thank you

[cp8759]

They have cocked up the charge certificate amount - it should be £195 not £130.

What with the lack of a contravention I can't see you losing this but you must get your appeal in in time.

+1, mis-stating the CC amount must be fatal IMO.

[Ed26]

Do I just resend the appeal I sent before? In it I explained I was using the carwash and even provided a receipt. What else is there to say?

You have until the 1st of May to respond. service was delayed by the Easter holiday. If it was me I would at least make reference to all the other points

Timescale for action on PCN wrong

Failing to properly consider your challenge

If you bump the thread on Monday next week i will outline them all

Hi please don’t forget me 👍

[PASTMYBEST]

Do I just resend the appeal I sent before? In it I explained I was using the carwash and even provided a receipt. What else is there to say?

You have until the 1st of May to respond. service was delayed by the Easter holiday. If it was me I would at least make reference to all the other points

Timescale for action on PCN wrong

Failing to properly consider your challenge

If you bump the thread on Monday next week i will outline them all

Hi please don’t forget me 👍

no worries, later

[PASTMYBEST]

The grounds for representations against the notice to owner are these

1:- That that there was no breach of an order or regulations of the type described in subsection (2) of the said section 4;

A motorist is exempted from the regulations where they enter the bus lane in order to cross to gain access to adjacent premises. This is exactly what you did. The video shows this, and contrary to the letter of rejection no advantage was gained. in the alternative, any incursion into the bus lane can be distinguished from the mischief the order seeks to prevent as such the principle of de minimis non curat lex does apply


All other points of challenge are by way of a collateral challenge in that the authority fail to comply with the regulations

2;- The PCN states that the PCN must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service. The regulations state at 4(3)© that this period begins with the date of notice, thus you are prejudiced by having the wrong period by which you must act.

3:- the enforcement notice tells you that before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date the notice was served you must act. It goes on to qualify the date of service as the date (delivered) this is not the case. The date of service is defined by law, and is 2 working days after posting, unless it can be shown otherwise.
What is service, date put through your letterbox or date you receive it into your hands? regardless it doesn't really matter. The post is not reliable delivery could well be 3,4,5 or mare days after posting. Again you may act outside the time allowed because you have been given the wrong information

4:- the PCN states that the increased penalty is £130 and that id no action is taken before the end of the 28 day period they may serve a charge certificate seeking the increased sum Schedule 1(2)(e) of the regulations states that an Enforcement notice must contain this information, obviously it doesn't

Make sure you include al these points, the amount of detail doesn't really matter but if you can include the reference to regulation numbers. It tends to confuse them

Any questions ask away

[Ed26]

The grounds for representations against the notice to owner are these

1:- That that there was no breach of an order or regulations of the type described in subsection (2) of the said section 4;

A motorist is exempted from the regulations where they enter the bus lane in order to cross to gain access to adjacent premises. This is exactly what you did. The video shows this, and contrary to the letter of rejection no advantage was gained. in the alternative, any incursion into the bus lane can be distinguished from the mischief the order seeks to prevent as such the principle of de minimis non curat lex does apply


All other points of challenge are by way of a collateral challenge in that the authority fail to comply with the regulations

2;- The PCN states that the PCN must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service. The regulations state at 4(3)© that this period begins with the date of notice, thus you are prejudiced by having the wrong period by which you must act.

3:- the enforcement notice tells you that before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date the notice was served you must act. It goes on to qualify the date of service as the date (delivered) this is not the case. The date of service is defined by law, and is 2 working days after posting, unless it can be shown otherwise.
What is service, date put through your letterbox or date you receive it into your hands? regardless it doesn't really matter. The post is not reliable delivery could well be 3,4,5 or mare days after posting. Again you may act outside the time allowed because you have been given the wrong information

4:- the PCN states that the increased penalty is £130 and that id no action is taken before the end of the 28 day period they may serve a charge certificate seeking the increased sum Schedule 1(2)(e) of the regulations states that an Enforcement notice must contain this information, obviously it doesn't

Make sure you include al these points, the amount of detail doesn't really matter but if you can include the reference to regulation numbers. It tends to confuse them

Any questions ask away

Wow thank you so much, really appreciate it.

[Neil B]

The grounds for representations against the notice to owner are these

1:- That that there was no breach of an order or regulations of the type described in subsection (2) of the said section 4;

A motorist is exempted from the regulations where they enter the bus lane in order to cross to gain access to adjacent premises. This is exactly what you did. The video shows this, and contrary to the letter of rejection no advantage was gained. in the alternative, any incursion into the bus lane can be distinguished from the mischief the order seeks to prevent as such the principle of de minimis non curat lex does apply


All other points of challenge are by way of a collateral challenge in that the authority fail to comply with the regulations

2;- The PCN states that the PCN must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of service. The regulations state at 4(3)© that this period begins with the date of notice, thus you are prejudiced by having the wrong period by which you must act.

3:- the enforcement notice tells you that before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date the notice was served you must act. It goes on to qualify the date of service as the date (delivered) this is not the case. The date of service is defined by law, and is 2 working days after posting, unless it can be shown otherwise.
What is service, date put through your letterbox or date you receive it into your hands? regardless it doesn't really matter. The post is not reliable delivery could well be 3,4,5 or mare days after posting. Again you may act outside the time allowed because you have been given the wrong information

4:- the PCN states that the increased penalty is £130 and that id no action is taken before the end of the 28 day period they may serve a charge certificate seeking the increased sum Schedule 1(2)(e) of the regulations states that an Enforcement notice must contain this information, obviously it doesn't

Make sure you include al these points, the amount of detail doesn't really matter but if you can include the reference to regulation numbers. It tends to confuse them

Any questions ask away

Wow thank you so much, really appreciate it.

You've missed out cp's point, which I think is very strong.

[PASTMYBEST]

the only point i can see that cp makes is re the misquoted CC amount. That's covered in point 4 am i missing something else?

[Neil B]

the only point i can see that cp makes is re the misquoted CC amount. That's covered in point 4 am i missing something else?

No. Me being dumb and not reading properly.

Except where you say "the PCN", should read EN.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 23:45

[Ed26]

Got this in the post this morning. Whoooopie Just want to say a big thank you all for your help and comments. Most of all @PASTMYBEST for the help with the notice to owner text. You guys are amazing

This post has been edited by Ed26: Thu, 24 May 2018 - 00:01

[cp8759]

Well done. I can't help but wonder what "further assistance" they could possible give.

[misteral]

Post #33 from PastMyBest really made this result possible . Big thumbs up.