Wrongly given fpn for littering, Fpn help when innocent |
Wrongly given fpn for littering, Fpn help when innocent |
Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 15:53
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 4 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,782 |
Hi. My friend has pointed me here for some advice.
On Tuesday I was given an fpn by and environment enforcement officer for "littering" or more prcicely "dropping a cigarette butt". The reason I'm seeking advice is that this did not happen. I don't even smoke... Has anybody got any advice for me? My options appear to be pay fine, which I won't do as I didn't commit an offence or don't pay it and go to magistrates court to appeal. Does anyone have any successful experience of this and what did they do. In going to go to the Dr's to get medical back up in terms of no signs of smoking, as well as getting a smoking/nicotine test. I will ask for evidence of the "offence" which there isn't as i asked the guy if his camera caught it and he said no... This has completely enraged me. Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
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Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 15:53
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Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 16:08
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 7 Jun 2016 Member No.: 84,804 |
Not sure if this is the right forum.
Anyway, if you are completely innocent, and I'm not doubting you, never admit to something you didn't do. |
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Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 19:34
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 29,269 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Member No.: 16,671 |
Can we see the FPN you were given please.
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Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:11
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#4
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 4 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,782 |
I'll try sort a pic out in a bit. Just got to blank personal info on it
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Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:30
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
There doesn’t seem to be much need to see the FPN. Your story is that you didn’t discard the cigarette butt. If you opt for a court hearing then the council will have to prove to beyond a reasonable doubt that you did. Before the trial they would serve their evidence on you, which presumably will be a witness statement from the enforcement officer. Your job at trial will be to discredit his statement, by cross-examination and by introducing contrary evidence.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:48
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#6
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,214 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
I have a feeling that a littering FPN is not default convict - in other words, if the OP does not pay it, it is up to the LA to prosecute, as opposed to FPNs under the RTOA where the penalty can simply be registered as a fine if not paid.
-------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Thu, 4 Jan 2018 - 20:50
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
You may well be correct. In which case they may decide that there is insufficient evidence to proceed.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 00:09
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 26,655 Joined: 6 Nov 2014 Member No.: 74,048 |
In London has this not become a decriminalized offence and appeal is to the E&TA
-------------------- All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 09:58
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 291 Joined: 12 Jan 2013 Member No.: 59,321 |
Local authorities are naming and shaming so another reason to contest the allegation.
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Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 10:38
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 29,269 Joined: 16 Jan 2008 Member No.: 16,671 |
There doesn’t seem to be much need to see the FPN. I was looking to refresh my memory on the recently implemented powers/legislation. -------------------- |
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Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 13:21
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 23,582 Joined: 12 Feb 2013 From: London Member No.: 59,924 |
Did you drop something else?
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Fri, 5 Jan 2018 - 18:12
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
There doesn’t seem to be much need to see the FPN. I was looking to refresh my memory on the recently implemented powers/legislation. Fair enough. It may be that I’m out of date. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 01:32
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#13
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 4 Jan 2018 Member No.: 95,782 |
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Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 02:19
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
I have a feeling that a littering FPN is not default convict - in other words, if the OP does not pay it, it is up to the LA to prosecute, as opposed to FPNs under the RTOA where the penalty can simply be registered as a fine if not paid. That's correct, it's up the to LA to prosecute and in council areas where the EPA is enforced, these are amongst the most frequent proceedings brought by local authorities. wrinkly_ninja: There is no appeal, you're presumed innocent until proven guilty. If you've never smoked (or haven't smoked for many years), it should be fairly easy to prove. Get as many witness statements as possible from people you know, maybe get your medical records (I think the NHS records if you're a smoker or not), if you really want to go to town you could go as far as getting receipts and/or a statement from wherever you usually get your groceries to say that you never buy cigarettes (that might be seen as using a sledge hammer to crack a nut, but you're trying to avoid a criminal conviction). As you only have to create a reasonable doubt that you might be innocent, I won't say it's a walk in the park but it should be possible to get an acquittal. Of course, if there's any CCTV in the area that would be the jackpot. As southpaw82 has said, once you challenge it, they might not even bother pursuing it. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sat, 6 Jan 2018 - 16:27
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 477 Joined: 1 Nov 2013 From: NG1 Member No.: 66,409 |
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Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 10:51
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#16
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 1,668 Joined: 9 Nov 2008 From: Doldrums Member No.: 23,903 |
Normally records are changed from smoker to ex smoker. You can get an appointment with your surgeries nurse and they can carry out a co2 check. It takes about 3 to 4 weeks for your co2 levels to go down after a cessation of smoking. However, it will probably not prove that you did not have A cigarrette in the last 4 weeks. Nevertheless, a co2 check may help your defence, if needed.
-------------------- STAND UP FOR YOURSELF OR YOU WILL FALL FOR ANYTHING
Ultracrepadarion - A person who offers an opinion on a subject they know nothing about. |
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