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andy_foster
Posted on: Sun, 15 Jul 2018 - 21:13


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Just in case anyone else has the same thought that I did, whilst gambling debts have historically been non-justiciable, s. 335 of the Gambling Act 2005 provides that "The fact that a contract relates to gambling shall not prevent its enforcement."
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1399264 · Replies: 16 · Views: 465

andy_foster
Posted on: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 16:35


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QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:37) *
QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 12:09) *
3) ...If i were to ignore the NIP, and wait for a summons, is there any sense to trying to have the tickets quashed on technical grounds?

Depends on what you mean by ignoring the NIP. Failing to nominate the driver will see 6 points (each time). There is a statutory defence that if you did not know the driver nor with reasonable diligence identify them - but this can be risky.


If the OP ignores the s. 172 requirement entirely, then the statutory defence would not help as they would clearly have not provided information that was in their power to give and that might have lead to the identification of the driver.

@OP, if you want to rely on any technical defences to the underlying speeding allegations, you need to name the driver - otherwise the relevant offence will be failing to name the driver (as indicated above).
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1397187 · Replies: 29 · Views: 1,169

andy_foster
Posted on: Sun, 8 Jul 2018 - 18:54


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QUOTE (Son of Captain A @ Sun, 8 Jul 2018 - 19:36) *
My questions:

Should she have been given a FPN at the time with a ticket number etc?
Should the officer have taken her licence away to add the points to it?


No. No.


QUOTE
All seems a bit odd as she was not given ANYTHING by the officer - no paperwork at all.


Most, if not all, forces now operate a centralised system - instead of the occifer deciding whether to deal with an alleged offender by reporting them for consideration of prosecution, issuing an FPN or just giving them a bollocking, a Traffic Offence Report is submitted and someone in an office somewhere makes the decision. The alleged offender is usually given a copy of the TOR, although there is no legal requirement to do so.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1396904 · Replies: 20 · Views: 1,456

andy_foster
Posted on: Sun, 8 Jul 2018 - 06:53


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We are researching cases where apparently visually impaired people are posting requests for us to help them with their homework in the forum for motorists to seek help regarding their own active speeding (or other criminal motoring offence) cases.

If you think that FPN could possible by an abbreviation of "Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty", perhaps your time would be better spent on matters which might help your future career - such as asking "do you want fries with that?".

Other than posting in the appropriate forum (Flame Pit would seem to be the most appropriate), this site's purpose is to help motorists facing legal issues use the law to their advantage as best they can. We do not entertain questions on how to pervert the course of justice - whether in the form of a direct request to advise on how to do so, or in a more abstract form.
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1396768 · Replies: 27 · Views: 1,015

andy_foster
Posted on: Sat, 7 Jul 2018 - 18:25


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Does the SJPN have an issue date?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1396730 · Replies: 11 · Views: 1,206

andy_foster
Posted on: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 21:37


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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 18:52) *
As it’s an FPN


I would be prepared to bet a fair chunk of money that it's not.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1395867 · Replies: 31 · Views: 2,062

andy_foster
Posted on: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 21:27


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QUOTE (bevc @ Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 15:13) *
I have 9 points on my licence and 3 pending. They are for:

02/04/2017 50 something in a 50mph limit (motorway)
30/06/2017 50 something in a 50mph limit (A road)
23/07/2017 50 something in a 50mph limit (A road)
01/04/2018 40 something in a 40mph limit (motorway)

I sent back my NIP and have had a form to request a date for my court hearing.


This makes little sense (to me at least). What exactly have you received?

QUOTE (bevc @ Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 16:20) *
I did a speed awareness course following an offence in Sept 2015. I have never been offered another.


What type of offence was the course for?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1395595 · Replies: 23 · Views: 1,515

andy_foster
Posted on: Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 18:54


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QUOTE (Jay2626 @ Mon, 2 Jul 2018 - 18:58) *
I have just received an FCP


???
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1395545 · Replies: 31 · Views: 2,062

andy_foster
Posted on: Sun, 1 Jul 2018 - 14:42


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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Sun, 1 Jul 2018 - 13:59) *
QUOTE (122basy @ Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 17:43) *
The instructors on speed awareness courses have nothing to do with speed enforcement and enforcement thresholds.

Ridiculous.

Apart from the more obvious direct link, clearly police need to be satisfied that courses have a similar deterrent and educative effect as fixed penalties. One of the ways they do that (and I am sure there are more) is to measure reoffending rates.

The course providers may be third parties but the police have a hands on approach, after all we are told it is all about safety and not money (but thank you for the money anyway).


Have you actually read the post you are arguing with? Like the actual words, not what you think it ought to have said?
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1395189 · Replies: 25 · Views: 812

andy_foster
Posted on: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 16:03


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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 30 Jun 2018 - 15:43) *
You seem to have some sort of obsession with this idea that anyone is suggesting that...


Whilst I do not always agree with you, most of your posts display at least a fair understanding of the law and an ability to reason logically.

However, continuing to argue with a troll who repeatedly relies on countering a point that nobody ever sought to rely on (a variation on 'begging the question') tends to hide the fact that you are better than him.
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1395070 · Replies: 34 · Views: 489

andy_foster
Posted on: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 20:18


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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 20:52) *
It's not a swap to a fixed penalty. It's the dropping of the s172 offence in exchange for the speeding offence.

The speeding offence is sentenced using normal court guidelines, i.e. 1/3 income, £85 costs and £30 surcharge. (Or they may be inclined to sentence at a fixed penalty equivalent at their discretion - you would have normally received such a fixed penalty offer so you shouldn't be disadvantaged)

But bear in mind a s172 conviction is far higher...


FTFY
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1394027 · Replies: 95 · Views: 6,705

andy_foster
Posted on: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 09:22


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QUOTE (mardeman @ Mon, 25 Jun 2018 - 09:26) *
I love this site, but I haven't got any comfort from it on this occasion.


As it should be. We are here to give practical advice, not to offer you a cup of tea and a hug (or judge you).

QUOTE
Please everyone keep their fingers crossed for me.


See above

QUOTE
Cant find when I did speed awareness but really hoping that it was after Jun15! (although not sure with 9 points already that I would be offered one)


It's the date of offence that matters - assuming that you have been caught.
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1393513 · Replies: 69 · Views: 2,627

andy_foster
Posted on: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 21:04


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QUOTE (id66 @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 19:27) *
That could be it.. we bought the car on the 24th April but (I think) the V5 was produced on the 14th May (found this date as part of the document ref no)..
Didn't even occur to me, feels like we've had the car for longer..


What is the date of the offence? Did you buy the car privately or from a dealer?
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1390289 · Replies: 9 · Views: 1,057

andy_foster
Posted on: Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 14:26


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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Tue, 12 Jun 2018 - 15:08) *
What policy documents? Your vehicle’s V5C will tell you who the registered keeper is.


Err, no it won't because he does not have the V5C as he is not the RK (despite explicitly telling us that he is in his first post).
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1389871 · Replies: 11 · Views: 659

andy_foster
Posted on: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 20:03


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Having asserted that you were not the keeper of the vehicle involved in the alleged offence, unless the police can prove otherwise your obligations under s. 172 RTA 1988 are those of "any other person" - to give any information that is in your power to give and that might lead to the identification of the driver (if so required by or on behalf of the CHief Officer of Police), and to do so within 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice.

Whilst it would generally be up to the prosecution to prove that you had further information in your power to give, it is assumed that anybody would have some information to give even if it was simply that they had no knowledge of such a vehicle (or in your case that your vehicle was not the one involved). Providing such information after the expiration of the 28 days would generally be evidence that you had such information in your power to give (unless it can be shown that it was not reasonably practicable to provide such information any sooner).

Whilst the police can make reasonable requirements as to the manner in which the information should be provided (e.g in writing, and signed by the addressee), substantial compliance is good compliance (a covering letter providing all the relevant information is as good as the form provided (and in many cases more appropriate)).

Technically, you could well be guilty due to failing to provide any information within the original 28 days, and not providing information that was in your power to give until after the expiration of the 28 days beginning with the date of service of the notice to your current address. The former ought not to be a major problem as the police effectively gave you a specified extension, but the latter might be more problematic.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1389596 · Replies: 29 · Views: 2,683

andy_foster
Posted on: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 18:50


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QUOTE (666 @ Mon, 11 Jun 2018 - 15:32) *
The law requires a NIP to be served to the registered keeper within 14 days, which it seems it was. There is no time limit to any subsequent NIPS, so no, you don't seem to have an argument.


Please don't make things up.

The law requires a NIP to be served on the RK or the driver within 14 days unless it was not reasonably practicable to determine their details in time to serve a NIP within the 14 days.

If the DVLA/PNC was showing the vehicle as "in trade" and one force used the MIB database to find the OP, and the other force simply couldn't be bothered, then he would seem to have a defence.
However, if the DVLA/PNC was showing the previous keeper as still being the RK, and they had no reason to doubt that information, the exemption would seem to apply.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1389567 · Replies: 4 · Views: 492

andy_foster
Posted on: Sun, 10 Jun 2018 - 02:19


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QUOTE (davetheraver @ Sun, 10 Jun 2018 - 02:39) *
I received a speeding ticket this morning from Thames Valley police saying I was doing 53 in a 30 at 23.54 on 3/6/2018


I very much doubt that.

QUOTE
I have a high performance car, so its normal for me to whizz around London, but I wasn't expecting anything.


Don't lead with that argument.

QUOTE
I saw it was in Slough on the the A355 Farnham Road, I have never driven there.

I also noticed the date, I have been abroad for over 2 weeks and came back on 7/6/2018.

So my first thought was someone had access to my car whilst I was away, but no one does unless they have a cloned key or hacked into my vehicle. Which I doubt they would do that just for a drive, they would steal it.

Plus when I drove the vehicle I could tell it had not been driven as it was stiff and the breaks dirty etc.

So second thought is either cloned plates or a mistake, maybe the offender has a similar number plate and a bit of dirt made the camera think it was mine?

Either way I am pretty P'd off.


Other than that cameras are not generally capable of thought, you seem to have grasped that logically either your plate has been cloned or misread.

QUOTE
I can prove I was away, but some w****r has cloned my plates I now have to prove its not my vehicle.


Apparently you have managed to discount the possibility of a misread and are helpfully explaining the law to us (which is most helpful as many of us were under the misapprehension that it is up to the prosecution to prove their case).

QUOTE
Whats the procedure with this? Anyone had any experience with this?


If we assume that logically either your plate has been cloned or misread, the first thing that any rational person would do would be to contact the SCP and ask them to confirm whether or not the plate was misread.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1389116 · Replies: 5 · Views: 717

andy_foster
Posted on: Sun, 27 May 2018 - 19:29


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QUOTE (prospectusside @ Sun, 27 May 2018 - 19:36) *
Just got my confirmation of the accept-the-points-and-fine-or-contest-in-court letter and noticed that the registration is wrong - they've typed in an S instead a 5.

Having just re-checked the Traffic Offence Report given to me by the policeman at the time, I can see the S/5 is ambiguous, but has the correct make, model and colour of my car.

Could I possibly reply with "I've received a FPN for a vehicle I have no connection to" or are they allowed a bit of leeway?

Is it at least worth a try?


There is no legal requirement to issue a COFP and any error contained within a COFP would not prevent subsequent prosecution after the end of the suspended enforcement period.
Even if the error was carried over into court proceedings, it would not constitute a defence.

N.B. Finding an exploiting errors and loopholes generally requires a great deal of attention to detail. If you can't tell the difference between an FPN and a COFP, I would suggest that you are not really cut out for this. The same sadly applies to a number of our regular posters.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1385440 · Replies: 5 · Views: 762

andy_foster
Posted on: Fri, 25 May 2018 - 06:21


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QUOTE (stewpots @ Thu, 24 May 2018 - 14:50) *
My court case is pending (28 June) and my view (and a barristers) is that the SJPC was issued out of time.
Can I ask pre trial ie now via email to their solicitor how many SJPC has the force issued after 6 months and 1 day in the last year ? and how many before.


You (or your barrister) put the prosecution to proof that it was issued in time (or whatever other requirements they might not have complied with - or even might have complied with but might not prove) and it is up to them to prove that they have complied with such requirements.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1384838 · Replies: 80 · Views: 7,993

andy_foster
Posted on: Thu, 24 May 2018 - 01:37


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How do your insurers define "commuting" in your policy documents?
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1384555 · Replies: 11 · Views: 529

andy_foster
Posted on: Wed, 23 May 2018 - 19:45


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No NIP is required if the accused was involved in an accident (which can include causing an accident without yourself colliding with anything). However, that does not apply if the accused was not aware of the incident.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1384509 · Replies: 23 · Views: 2,376

andy_foster
Posted on: Wed, 23 May 2018 - 19:11


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Can your son post here himself, instead of you potentially playing chinese whispers?
What does "He was in his street" mean (in the context of the notice)? Was he, and more importantly was his car at the location stated in the notice at or around the time stated?


QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 23 May 2018 - 20:08) *
He has to name the driver or face a slam dunk 6 points and large fine for failing to do so as it should tell you on the letter.


That depends on what exactly daddy's chinese whispers equate to.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1384496 · Replies: 23 · Views: 2,376

andy_foster
Posted on: Tue, 22 May 2018 - 20:05


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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 22 May 2018 - 11:45) *
You have to nominate the driver of the vehicle, to satisfy the obligations under S172.


If you don't know what you're talking about, please refrain from making stuff up.
If the OP's vehicle was not involved in the alleged offence, then he is not the person keeping the vehicle that was. His obligation is merely to provide any information that is in his power to give and that might lead to the identification of the driver.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1384213 · Replies: 19 · Views: 2,036

andy_foster
Posted on: Thu, 17 May 2018 - 23:31


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QUOTE (Michael Gibson @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:34) *
I've got a 2015 Dacia Sandero


Good news!
  Forum: The Flame Pit · Post Preview: #1383052 · Replies: 9 · Views: 468

andy_foster
Posted on: Tue, 15 May 2018 - 21:21


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QUOTE (friablebanana @ Tue, 15 May 2018 - 19:30) *
Said email contained contents from the police of an intent to prosecute over a speeding offence along with a PCN number date and time.


I very much doubt that a NIP had a PCN number.
  Forum: Speeding and other Criminal Offences · Post Preview: #1382438 · Replies: 13 · Views: 970

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