[NIP Wizard] NIP for a hire car Options

[noonespecial]

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2018
Date of the NIP: - 30 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 38 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A104 Lea Bridge Rd nr Chatsworth Rd E5 W/B (1564), UNITED KINGDOM
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - I hired it from Zipcar
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Had just picked the car up (from Essex Wharf). I don't normally drive and was not aware of any speed limit signs.

Zipcar emailed me on 12th Sept, with a copy of a NIP dated 7th Sept, and told me they had redirected it to the Metropolitan Police.

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - No
As you were not responsible for the vehicle, somebody else has named you as the driver. Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.
  
  You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sun, 07 Oct 2018 14:44:04 +0000

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[peterguk]

Any questions?

Alleged offence presumably speeding. Limit? Speed?

[666]

GSV shows 20 mph repeaters at that location.

[noonespecial]

Any questions?

Alleged offence presumably speeding. Limit? Speed?

My question I suppose was "is there anything I might not have thought of that I can use as an argument against this?"

Yes, speeding - 28mph in a 20mph zone.

[peterguk]

Assuming first NIP served on RK within 14 days, and signage was compliant, i can't see any defence..

[noonespecial]

GSV shows 20 mph repeaters at that location.

Can you tell me what GSV is and what a repeater is? Thanks..

Assuming first NIP served on RK within 14 days, and signage was compliant, i can't see any defence..

Yes, NIP was served on the hire company within 14 days.

[peterguk]

GSV shows 20 mph repeaters at that location.

Can you tell me what GSV is and what a repeater is? Thanks.

GSV = Google Street View

A repeater is the small roundel often attached to lamp posts displaying the speed limit.

As you entered the 20mph limit you will also have passed the large "terminal" speed limit signs.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 16:47

[noonespecial]

GSV shows 20 mph repeaters at that location.

Can you tell me what GSV is and what a repeater is? Thanks.

GSV = Google Street View

A repeater is the small roundel often attached to lamp posts displaying the speed limit.

As you entered the 20mph limit you will also have passed the large "terminal" speed limit signs.

Thanks - I've had a look on GSV and can see repeaters at each set of lights. Is there anywhere I can find out exactly where the camera is?

(Just for completeness, I turned from a private estate onto the road at a point which I assume was within the 20mph zone, so there was no terminal sign to pass.

[peterguk]

Is there anywhere I can find out exactly where the camera is?

Was it a mobile or fixed camera?

I turned from a private estate onto the road at a point which I assume was within the 20mph zone, so there was no terminal sign to pass.

If the private estate road you were in was a 20mph limit, then you're correct, you'll have passed no 20mph terminal signs as you moved onto the main road.

If however, the private estate road was a 30 limit, then you will have (or should have) passed 20mph terminal signs. If there were none, then you may have a defence.

[localdriver]

Looking at Streetview, the change from the 30mph to the 20mph limit is just past Lea Bridge, at the traffic lights, three terminal signs.

[noonespecial]

Looking at Streetview, the change from the 30mph to the 20mph limit is just past Lea Bridge, at the traffic lights, three terminal signs.

I think it's clear I don't have a defence, but hope it's OK to ask another question to satisfy my curiosity..

What's the difference between a repeater and a terminal speed limit sign?

[peterguk]

Looking at Streetview, the change from the 30mph to the 20mph limit is just past Lea Bridge, at the traffic lights, three terminal signs.

I think it's clear I don't have a defence, but hope it's OK to ask another question to satisfy my curiosity..

What's the difference between a repeater and a terminal speed limit sign?

Terminal speed limit signs are found where the limit changes, and are large in size.

Repeaters are "reminders", and are placed at intervals, and are small in size.

If in a 30mph limit where there are regular streetlights, 30mph repeaters are prohibited.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Sun, 7 Oct 2018 - 18:55

[localdriver]

Is there anywhere I can find out exactly where the camera is?

On Streetview, there is a camera near the start of the bus lane.

[The Rookie]

In addition Terminal signs should be in a pair either side of the road (the only exception to that is when turning into a side road with a lower limit and the sign being within 20m of the junction) while repeaters are usually on alternate sides of the road and singly.

[southpaw82]

In addition Terminal signs should be in a pair either side of the road (the only exception to that is when turning into a side road with a lower limit and the sign being within 20m of the junction)

Should or must? IIRC, it was a change in TSRGD 2016.

[The Rookie]

My understand is that it was a 'must' but is now 'should' but limit must be adequately conveyed.....

[noonespecial]

Thanks everyone for your responses - it's been really informative