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SmartParking PCN
Critical_Mass
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:18
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Hi all,

Need some advice.

Today received a PCN through the post from SmartParking ltd. Displaying a picture of the car in question, entering pub carpark (managed by smart parking ltd) and also leaving. The letter suggests either a ticket wasnt paid for or stayed "for longer than permitted"

So HOW does the system know how long was bought. If it was just a standard 1.50 for £1 hour, press green button for ticket jobbie, so how does it know how long was bought??

Advice welcome

Thanks.

This post has been edited by Critical_Mass: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 17:11
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post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:18
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Jlc
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:29
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One suspects you needed to enter your registration... (It was an ANPR setup?)

Anyway, Smart are dead easy to beat regardless. They do not rely on Protection of Freedoms Act to pursue the keeper...

Simply tell them this and the keeper has no liability...

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:30


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Critical_Mass
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:34
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Hi thanks for the reply

The setup was just a regular pub carpark, but theyd added a ticket machine (kind you stick on the window). yes ANPR camera.

Sorry, what are you saying i should be telling them?

Just to note, this car parking is attached to a pub, which we used. So does that give me any weight in my argument?

Thanks.

This post has been edited by Critical_Mass: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 14:30
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ostell
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 14:04
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So even though Smart will not be able to go after the keeper they can still go after the driver so edit all your posts please so that the possible identity of the driver cannot be inferred. refer to "the driver ......." etc.

You could contact the pub and see if they would cancel. Unfortunately Google maps is only date 2010 so can't check.

So post up the Notice to keeper to so that others can see it, or check it yourself against paragraph 9 of POFA.

If you have just received the letter then they must have exceeded the 14 days for the keeper to receive the letter.



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Critical_Mass
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 14:12
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Thanks i've edited my posts (though wasnt sure exactly what info id given would be able to be used to infer).

I'll post the Notice asap.

Thanks.
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ostell
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 14:24
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If they can guess the driver, or show the probability of who was the driver then that's fine. It's a civil court and the proof is the balance of probability.

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 14:49
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Critical_Mass
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 14:30
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Thank you
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Critical_Mass
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 14:51
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So what now? Should it be ignored or should it be paid?

There is no mention of RK on the letter.
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ostell
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 15:12
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You write back to them as the keeper denying and liability as they have failed to comply with the requirements of POFA to transfer liability to the keeper. Ignore is not an option with a NTK Search around the forum for BOGOFF response and find one that suits.
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Critical_Mass
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 15:14
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Is there a template to use?

What are the acronyms? (sorry new to the site)

This post has been edited by Critical_Mass: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 15:15
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ostell
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 15:21
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No templates, every case is different.

POFA Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 you've already been given the link to that.

BOGOFF is just what it says.

Post up your response for critique before sending, though it would help to see the Notice to Keeper.
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Critical_Mass
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 15:22
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No worries, ill post it at some point today.

Thank you for your help so far.
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Jlc
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 15:49
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QUOTE (Critical_Mass @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 15:51) *
Should it be ignored or should it be paid?

Neither! Not sure how you came to that conclusion...

Don't like templates but pick the bones from this.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Critical_Mass
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 17:12
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I asked for a template simply because I havent a clue what to put in the letter. I know v little about this sort of thing. smile.gif Thanks for the link

I've attached the Notification on the first post smile.gif

Cheers

This post has been edited by Critical_Mass: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 17:12
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Critical_Mass
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 17:31
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Would this be a suitable way of writing it? (borrowed)

"Dear Sirs,

I am the keeper of vehicle xxxxx responding to your Parking Charge Notice xxxx

The PCN fails to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, namely, but not limited to, 9 (2) (f), failing to give the keeper notice of possible liability. I can not have any liability in this matter. I have no requirement in law to provide details of the driver at the time of the event and will not be doing so. We do not expect to hear from you again, other than to confirm that there will be no further action."

I dont fully understand what you guys are saying theyve failed to do, Im assuming its the lack of warning to the keeper, within 14 days of the offence? Is that 14 calendar days, not working days?

Also even the attached notice doesnt mention registered keeper.

Apologies for being stupid, as I say, im new to all this.

Thanks.
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cabbyman
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 17:35
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Read and understand:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9...edule/4/enacted


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Critical_Mass
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 18:04
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I have had a read of that before asking the question. That's listing a set of requirements. But which one in my case have they broken, can't have broken them all. Paragraph 9, 2(f)?
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Jlc
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 18:17
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QUOTE (Critical_Mass @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 19:04) *
...can't have broken them all.

Nope, but they have to meet them all... They haven't.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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cabbyman
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 18:17
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At least.

The trick is to go through Sched 4 and tick off every point that they comply with or cross every point they don't. I bet you don't get many ticks!

The Bog Off letter will suffice for now but you need to be prepared with further arguments if necessary.

I presume this was in England/Wales, not Scotland?





--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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Jlc
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 18:18
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This link might be easier.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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