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PNC - Parking Eye - Overnight Stay, Accused of parking overnight
kiumahix
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:32
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Hi everyone,

My mum had received a parking ticket for staying over night at Asda Carpark (Friday/Saturday). They have sent her pictures of her car driving in and out with her number plates. She cannot be seen nor identified in the pictures. They claim she entered on Friday afternoon (16:45) and left Saturday midday (14:25).

All that said, she did not park over night. She went there Friday afternoon (most likely the time they claim) and Saturday midday (around 1 or 2 pm).

To me it seems that the auto number plate thing registered it wrong and basically did not capture her leave on Friday nor the entrance on Saturday OR mixed up the leave from Friday and Saturday. The times seem to add up. She entered and left similar time but she did not stay overnight. So they are missing Friday leave and Saturday entrance.

What are our options? I'm not sure how to approach this appeal because we definitely do not want to pay this as this is not what happened. Can we ask for proof of her car actually being at the car park overnight? Could we ask them to prove that it was actually her driving it? Afterall anyone could get number plates and stick them on their car and park like that anywhere?

Images attached.

Any advice and help appreciated.

EDIT: For some reason I cannot get to upload any images... I will try in a minute.

EDIT2: Cannot upload but here are some links:

Front of letter:
https://ibb.co/nLV9Pf

Back of letter
https://ibb.co/fjFhc0


This post has been edited by kiumahix: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:37
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post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:32
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cabbyman
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:42
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A good old double dip. Does she have receipts from each of the visits? They may help to prove your case.

However, in the first instance complain to the manager at Asda which may produce a cancellation. Get confirmation of that cancellation in writing.

Meantime, draft your appeal as Registered Keeper to PE and post on here for fine tuning.


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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:12
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QUOTE
To me it seems that the auto number plate thing registered it wrong and basically did not capture her leave on Friday nor the entrance on Saturday


You know this is a well known flaw of ANPR?

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2015...protection.html

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=5550336

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?topic=5768,0

Does her phone have Google location?

What happened when she did the obvious and complained to the Store Manager?

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kiumahix
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:22
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 20:42) *
Meantime, draft your appeal as Registered Keeper to PE and post on here for fine tuning.

Could you clarify what PE is please?

QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:12) *
Does her phone have Google location?

Yes, we have those dates and they show she was at home.

QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:12) *
What happened when she did the obvious and complained to the Store Manager?

She has not complained to anybody just yet nor has she sent an appeal.

This post has been edited by kiumahix: Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:22
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:26
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QUOTE
Could you clarify what PE is please?

Could you have a think? What's your thread about?
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kiumahix
post Thu, 15 Nov 2018 - 21:29
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Okay I got it... I will post a draft shortly. Thanks
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kiumahix
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 17:27
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I have drafted a response email/letter.

Dear Sirs/Madame,
I dispute your parking charge as the keeper of the vehicle.
The driver entered the car park on 26/10/2018 at 16:44 and left the same day. The driver then returned to the car park the next day to do further shopping whom also left the same day. The driver did not park the car overnight.
I live in _______ so leaving my car overnight does not benefit me in any shape or form and I would not have any reason to do so.
I have evidence in form of GPS location which clearly states I was at home on 26/10/2018 between 7PM and 12AM 27/10/2018 which can be provided in court if this case will need to be taken further.
I am assuming the automated parking camera did not take images of the car leaving on 26/10/2018 and of the car entering on 27/10/2018.
If you believe this was not an error, then I would like to see CCTV footage of the car not leaving the car park on 26/10/2018.
Best regards,


Any help would be greatly appreciated as you will see from the draft I am not great at it...

EDIT: Made updated to the draft

This post has been edited by kiumahix: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 20:18
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DancingDad
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 19:08
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Take out any reference to who was driving.... The driver entered the car park at.... the driver returned the next day.
Edit your posts to reflect same, dunno if needed for this but good practice with any private parking ticket

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 19:09
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kiumahix
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 20:19
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If I take out the reference then should I still include the paragraph about explaining the fact I do not live near the location so staying there overnight would not benefit me? In that paragraph I use "I's" etc. ?
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cabbyman
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 20:22
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Take out as many 'I's' as you can. Talk about the vehicle being 'elsewhere between.......'

Dear Sir,

I dispute your parking charge as the keeper of the vehicle.

The driver entered the car park on 26/10/2018 at 16:44 and left the same day. The driver then returned to the car park the next day to do further shopping whom also left the same day. The driver did not park the car overnight.

There is evidence in form of GPS location which clearly shows that the vehicle was elsewhere on 26/10/2018 between 7PM and 12AM 27/10/2018 which can be provided in court if this case will need to be taken further.
It is obvious that the automated parking camera did not take images of the car leaving on 26/10/2018 and of the car entering on 27/10/2018.

I require that you cancel this charge and confirm that you have done so.

Yours faithfully,


Require that they cancel; don't request it!



This post has been edited by cabbyman: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 20:28


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Dave65
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 20:58
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The store MANAGER is the priority first go in now and NOT the customer services.
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kiumahix
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 22:12
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 20:22) *
Take out as many 'I's' as you can. Talk about the vehicle being 'elsewhere between.......'

Dear Sir,

I dispute your parking charge as the keeper of the vehicle.

The driver entered the car park on 26/10/2018 at 16:44 and left the same day. The driver then returned to the car park the next day to do further shopping whom also left the same day. The driver did not park the car overnight.

There is evidence in form of GPS location which clearly shows that the vehicle was elsewhere on 26/10/2018 between 7PM and 12AM 27/10/2018 which can be provided in court if this case will need to be taken further.
It is obvious that the automated parking camera did not take images of the car leaving on 26/10/2018 and of the car entering on 27/10/2018.

I require that you cancel this charge and confirm that you have done so.

Yours faithfully,


Require that they cancel; don't request it!


Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!

QUOTE (Dave65)
The store MANAGER is the priority first go in now and NOT the customer services.


I take it we should go to the store and request to speak to the manager not email him ?

EDIT:

Should we do speak to the store manager first or appeal online and still talk to the manager regardless?

This post has been edited by kiumahix: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 22:13
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Redivi
post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 00:47
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I require demand that you cancel this charge and confirm that you have done so.

You have accessed my details at the DVLA without reasonable cause and in breach of the General Data Protection Regulations.
Any other response will immediately reported to the DVLA and the Information Commissioners Office


I personally wouldn't talk to the store manager YET

If he cancels the Parking Notice, you've been the only one inconvenienced

I would first send the challenge above
ParkingEye is likely to reject it

You then appeal to POPLA and include the evidence
ParkingEye will No Contest the appeal but it will still cost them £30 for the POPLA fee

You can then complain to the supermarket's Head Office and the DVLA that ParkingEye not only wrongly issued the Parking Notice but, when you drew its attention to the error, called you a liar

If you really want to cause annoyance, you can treat the supermarket to an article in the local newspaper complete with appropriate street theatre such as the obligatory sad face

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kiumahix
post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 09:15
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Redivi, thanks for your input. Do you think I should swap out the I's in what you wrote as well so it'll be something like " You have accessed the drivers details ..." rather than "my details"?

Here's the final draft:

Dear Sir,

I dispute your parking charge as the keeper of the vehicle.

The driver entered the car park on 26/10/2018 at 16:44 and left the same day. The driver then returned to the car park the next day to do further shopping whom also left the same day. The driver did not park the car overnight.

There is evidence in form of GPS location which clearly shows that the vehicle was elsewhere on 26/10/2018 between 7PM and 12AM 27/10/2018 which can be provided in court if this case will need to be taken further.
It is obvious that the automated parking camera did not take images of the car leaving on 26/10/2018 and of the car entering on 27/10/2018.

You have accessed my details at the DVLA without reasonable cause and in breach of the General Data Protection Regulations.
Any other response will immediately reported to the DVLA and the Information Commissioners Office

I demand that you cancel this charge and confirm that you have done so.

Best regards,


In terms of the signature, should I include my mums name ( the name it came addressed to in the letter) or leave it blank?

This post has been edited by kiumahix: Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 09:16
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ostell
post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 10:19
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Your mum should sign it.
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Redivi
post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 15:10
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ParkingEye has accessed your mother's details on the DVLA database as the registered keeper

"My details" is therefore correct and she must sign it

If ParkingEye asks her for the GPS evidence before they consider the appeal, she can reply that she's not used to having her integrity questioned and, if they don't cancel the Notice, they can pay the fee to see it in her evidence pack to POPLA
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 19 Nov 2018 - 08:06
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Indeed, you need to get your head round this OP!

The driver on the day cannot have had any details accessed, as the only details held are of the Registered Keeper
As such the keper appeals, the kepeer proves they were elsewhere, etc.
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kiumahix
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 21:26
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I have been too busy to post any updates but last week or two ago my mum has gotten a reply (an email) which confirmed they have lifted the PCN and will not have to pay a penny.

I would like to thank everyone who has helped me write the letter and revise the versions of it. I really appreciate your help!
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 23:04
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Absolute scam that double dip cases even occur though, and some victims actually PAY!
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