TWO Duplicate Fixed Penalties for Same Offence Options

[whitchurch]

Hi All,

On 18th January 2022 I was pulled over for illegal number plates (the car and numberplate were wrapped in a lightly tinted PPF (font/spacing legal)) and then he checked the front drive & passenger window which was over the limit (the legal tint film was put on top of a factory tinted glass). He also stated he will contact my insurance company & inform them of the illegal aspects of my vehicle.

I accept the fault however in the post two days later I have received TWO fines (fixed penalty) for £100 each for illegal number-plates and TWO fines for £50 each for tinted windows. Each letter/fine has a difference reference number. The date/Time of all four tickets are exactly the same 17:20.

I have no issue in paying one of each fine however surely this is an error or fault to send a ticket for each window & each numberplate?! I have of course since removed the numberplate film & have the front tints being removed tomorrow.

I have emailed: Es-fixedpenalty@Justice.gov.uk and of course no answer on the number they provide.

Should I send a letter to the Conditional Offer Unit with proof that one of each ticket has been paid?

Thank you in advance for your help and time.

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[The Rookie]

Firstly, accept one of each, making sure you follow all instructions to the letter.

You could just ignore the others and embarrass the Police in court, but yes I'd be minded to reply to the others, quote the reference numbers for the two you have accepted and point pout they appeared to have raised duplicates by mistake.

Or it could be one for front plate and one for rear, and one for drivers side and one for passenger side windows?

[cp8759]

You could just ignore the others and embarrass the Police in court, but yes I'd be minded to reply to the others, quote the reference numbers for the two you have accepted and point pout they appeared to have raised duplicates by mistake.

If they are for the same offence I'd do nothing, go to court, and then pursue costs against the prosecution on the basis that the bringing of proceedings was an improper act.

[The Rookie]

You could just ignore the others and embarrass the Police in court, but yes I'd be minded to reply to the others, quote the reference numbers for the two you have accepted and point pout they appeared to have raised duplicates by mistake.

If they are for the same offence I'd do nothing, go to court, and then pursue costs against the prosecution on the basis that the bringing of proceedings was an improper act.

Indeed, as would I, but most people don't want the hassle.

[southpaw82]

Is one of the £50 in relation to the driver’s side window and one for the passenger side window, i.e. 3 offences in total?

[whitchurch]

Is one of the £50 in relation to the driver’s side window and one for the passenger side window, i.e. 3 offences in total?

Its £50 for each window (driver & passenger) then £100 for EACH numberplate - 4 offences and four separate tickets with different reference numbers on each

You could just ignore the others and embarrass the Police in court, but yes I'd be minded to reply to the others, quote the reference numbers for the two you have accepted and point pout they appeared to have raised duplicates by mistake.

If they are for the same offence I'd do nothing, go to court, and then pursue costs against the prosecution on the basis that the bringing of proceedings was an improper act.

Indeed, as would I, but most people don't want the hassle.

I agree - I accept the fault but evidently there is 'hopefully' a duplication error. My thoughts are two make payment for one of each writing the authorisation code for each down THEN send a letter stating i've paid one of each and can they confirm its a duplicate.

IF it ends up with a court appearance as no one bothered to process my letter & respond, I can at least present proof of an attempt of clarification. Ill send the letter via recorded delivery so I have the receipt as proof.

No one i know has ever received two fines for the same offence. Usually one £40-60 fine for tinted windows.

[666]

AIUI the plate offence is failure to fix a registration mark, so only one offence.

[southpaw82]

AIUI the plate offence is failure to fix a registration mark, so only one offence.

Would it not be one offence of failing to display a compliant plate to the front and one to the rear? Regs 5 & 6 of The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001.

[mickR]

what exactly is the issue with the plates? the OP said font and spacing are correct and legal. As it appears to be that they are covered in a film does that change anything re the actual offence?

[andy_foster]

AIUI the plate offence is failure to fix a registration mark, so only one offence.

Would it not be one offence of failing to display a compliant plate to the front and one to the rear? Regs 5 & 6 of The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001.

AIUI the applicable offences would be ss 42 and 43 VERA 1994

I would read s. 42 (where applicable) of being a single offence of not having compliant plates, whereas s. 43 obscuring a plate could potentially be one offence per plate.
It would seem perverse that having no plates would be a single offence, but having legible but tinted plates could be 2 offences, but nobody ever said that the law made sense.

[mickR]

out of interest I'd like to see a pic of the plates

[Manx_Tom]

out of interest I'd like to see a pic of the plates

Wouldn't the concern of the police officer be that the PPF would impact on the retroreflective properties of the plate? Probably making it unreadable to ANPR? (Although I'd have thought applying any sort of - even lightly - tinted film over the plate would be an offence in itself. What's the point of tinting your numberplate? And what could stand out more to the police... )

[whitchurch]

out of interest I'd like to see a pic of the plates

Wouldn't the concern of the police officer be that the PPF would impact on the retroreflective properties of the plate? Probably making it unreadable to ANPR? (Although I'd have thought applying any sort of - even lightly - tinted film over the plate would be an offence in itself. What's the point of tinting your numberplate? And what could stand out more to the police... )

He was in traffic as i drove passed. He did a full 3 point turn in traffic, turned around and followed for 3-5 minutes. He didn't care about the type of film - just that it was tinted. It was light & fully readable however i accept the offence. It had been on the car for four months already and never had an issue however you only need to be stopped once i guess! The car is black & during the PPF did my headlights (legal to do) & then mentioned the numberplate so i figured worse case if they stop me ill just peel it off no big deal. However he then decided to mention the numberplate had no postcode, markings etc etc. Its a private numberplate i've had for over 8 years. Evidently its just the tint that initially got his interest.

After the numberplate issue - he got his machine to measure window tints and was explaining to me about AS2 glass being pre-tinted. I had the lightest tint put on the front windows however add on the factory tint thus put it over the edge. I explained ill remove it as I didn't know & did state how am i suppose to somehow be knowledged in AS2 glass!

For now Ill pay one of each ticket, write a letter to CONDITIONAL OFFER UNIT, PO.BOX 5992, SOUTHEND ON SEA SS19PX and lets see what happens!

[The Rookie]

So from a legal perspective you were driving around with no number plates at all. Given the litany of offences it doesn't surprise me that the book went through the air.

[whitchurch]

So from a legal perspective you were driving around with no number plates at all. Given the litany of offences it doesn't surprise me that the book went through the air.

UPDATE:

I've just had this response from the es-fixedpenalty e-mail address which is looking positive:

************
It does look like these have indeed being duplicated.

You will need to contact Metropolitan Police as they are the only ones that can sort this.

Metropolitan Police - 0207 230 1199 - calls accepted between 9 am and 12 noon or FixedPenaltyNoticeEnquiries@met.pnn.police.uk

Kind regards

******
Team Member – The North Fixed Penalty Office
National Compliance and Enforcement Service

***********

[cp8759]

Its a private numberplate i've had for over 8 years.

What's a private number plate? If you mean a personalised registration, that's nothing to do with the legality of the plate itself. All plates must come from an approved supplier (see https://www.gov.uk/number-plate-supplier ) or else they're illegal.

I've just had this response from the es-fixedpenalty e-mail address which is looking positive:

Well yes, if the fixed penalty notice was issued by the MET then it would be a positive step to contact them rather than some other force.

[andy_foster]

The relevance of a personalised plate is that (IIRC) if it is reported to the DVLA twice that the plate is being "misrepresented", it will be withdrawn and replaced with either a random age related plate or a Q plate.

[whitchurch]

Hi All,

On 18th January 2022 I was pulled over for illegal number plates (the car and numberplate were wrapped in a lightly tinted PPF (font/spacing legal)) and then he checked the front drive & passenger window which was over the limit (the legal tint film was put on top of a factory tinted glass). He also stated he will contact my insurance company & inform them of the illegal aspects of my vehicle.

I accept the fault however in the post two days later I have received TWO fines (fixed penalty) for £100 each for illegal number-plates and TWO fines for £50 each for tinted windows. Each letter/fine has a difference reference number. The date/Time of all four tickets are exactly the same 17:20.

I have no issue in paying one of each fine however surely this is an error or fault to send a ticket for each window & each numberplate?! I have of course since removed the numberplate film & have the front tints being removed tomorrow.

I have emailed: Es-fixedpenalty@Justice.gov.uk and of course no answer on the number they provide.

Should I send a letter to the Conditional Offer Unit with proof that one of each ticket has been paid?

Thank you in advance for your help and time.

Now heard back from Met.police.uk & they have cancelled one of the window tint tickets as it is a duplicate however have stated the front & rear numberplate are seen as separate offences therefore the £100 per numberplate tickets still stand. I have received this response by email however sent a letter via post yesterday morning. Will be interested to see if i get the same response from a different individual who looks at it! Otherwise ill have to pay the second numberplate ticket.

[The Rookie]

As discussed above, it looks like they are on solid ground and you'll need t pay them. Just be grateful you weren't summonsed (which, per guidance, you should have been ) as that would have cost you a lot more!

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 28 Jan 2022 - 10:47