PCN but no marking/bays and parked off road, Threads merged Options

[My_space]

I have been given PCN for not parking in a marked bay however there are no markings and the location is all off road so it cannot be classed as a parking spot anyway, i will add pictures shortly

This post has been edited by My_space: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 - 13:47

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[My_space]

https://imgur.com/CA34zb6

https://imgur.com/uhbDUs2

https://imgur.com/KixaMCp

[peterguk]

Post up all sides of PCN. You've not told us the contravention or which LA.
Also a link to GSV.

[Earl Purple]

Not parking within bay markings is the correct contravention code for off-street car parks, and you are not parked in a marked bay but an area not designated for parking.

There is a sign right in front of you that says "park in marked bays only".

At this point we don't know where you actually were or who issued it and even whether it was a council in which case it belongs in this forum, or contractors of private property in which case it is in the wrong forum.

[My_space]

PCN:

https://imgur.com/i5ccqw8

closest GSV:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5565947,-...6384!8i8192

This post has been edited by My_space: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 - 16:51

[peterguk]

What made you believe you could park there? Or did you park and take a chance?

[My_space]

What made you believe you could park there? Or did you park and take a chance?

There are no issues with parking on pavement or off road unless you would cause wheelchair users or people with prams to have to walk into the road, i dont see a problem with this location.

[peterguk]

What made you believe you could park there? Or did you park and take a chance?

There are no issues with parking on pavement or off road unless you would cause wheelchair users or people with prams to have to walk into the road, i dont see a problem with this location.

And the sign?

[My_space]

What made you believe you could park there? Or did you park and take a chance?

There are no issues with parking on pavement or off road unless you would cause wheelchair users or people with prams to have to walk into the road, i dont see a problem with this location.

And the sign?

parked in marked bays only, thats reference to the road, this is off road e.g. lets say i decided to park in a space next to the bays like on the right of this white focus:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5559635,-...6384!8i8192

then the sign applies

This post has been edited by My_space: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 - 17:38

[peterguk]

What made you believe you could park there? Or did you park and take a chance?

There are no issues with parking on pavement or off road unless you would cause wheelchair users or people with prams to have to walk into the road, i dont see a problem with this location.

And the sign?

parked in marked bays only, thats reference to the road, this is off road e.g. lets say i decided to park in a space next to the bays like on the right of this white focus:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5559635,-...6384!8i8192

then the sign applies

Your understanding is wrong regarding where you can and can't park in an off street car park. Common sense really.

[My_space]

What made you believe you could park there? Or did you park and take a chance?

There are no issues with parking on pavement or off road unless you would cause wheelchair users or people with prams to have to walk into the road, i dont see a problem with this location.

And the sign?

parked in marked bays only, thats reference to the road, this is off road e.g. lets say i decided to park in a space next to the bays like on the right of this white focus:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5559635,-...6384!8i8192

then the sign applies

Your understanding is wrong regarding where you can and can't park in an off street car park. Common sense really.

i beg to differ

i have actually been parking at that location for at least 2 weeks before this, its only now i have a PCN

also if they didnt want people to park there, why not fence it off?

This post has been edited by My_space: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 - 18:02

[Mad Mick V]

I can't see any Notice Boards in the car park where the OP was. On the other side of the road and a distance away is this one:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5558776,-...6384!8i8192

Therefore there is inadequate signage.

As to where the OP parked--it's not reserved or prohibited by road markings and there is a clear dropped kerb for vehicle access. If the Council wanted to exclude these bays from the car park proper they haven't done a good job-----again inadequate signage.

The cynic in me suggests the Council earns a fair amount from this honey-trap and we've seen similar instances of this before with other authorities.

Barnsley refuse to put their Orders in the TPT Library so the one to get hold of (with plans) is :-

The Metropolitan Borough of Barnsley (Barnsley) (Off-Street Parking Places) (Consolidation) Order 2018.

Mick

[My_space]

I can't see any Notice Boards in the car park where the OP was. On the other side of the road and a distance away is this one:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5558776,-...6384!8i8192

Therefore there is inadequate signage.

As to where the OP parked--it's not reserved or prohibited by road markings and there is a clear dropped kerb for vehicle access. If the Council wanted to exclude these bays from the car park proper they haven't done a good job-----again inadequate signage.

The cynic in me suggests the Council earns a fair amount from this honey-trap and we've seen similar instances of this before with other authorities.

Barnsley refuse to put their Orders in the TPT Library so the one to get hold of (with plans) is :-

The Metropolitan Borough of Barnsley (Barnsley) (Off-Street Parking Places) (Consolidation) Order 2018.

Mick

thanks mick, what should be my next course of action?

[Incandescent]

I can't see any Notice Boards in the car park where the OP was. On the other side of the road and a distance away is this one:-

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5558776,-...6384!8i8192

Therefore there is inadequate signage.

As to where the OP parked--it's not reserved or prohibited by road markings and there is a clear dropped kerb for vehicle access. If the Council wanted to exclude these bays from the car park proper they haven't done a good job-----again inadequate signage.

The cynic in me suggests the Council earns a fair amount from this honey-trap and we've seen similar instances of this before with other authorities.

Barnsley refuse to put their Orders in the TPT Library so the one to get hold of (with plans) is :-

The Metropolitan Borough of Barnsley (Barnsley) (Off-Street Parking Places) (Consolidation) Order 2018.

Mick

All well and good, but councils tend to fight like mad to retain their honey-traps, so OP must be prepared to take them to TPT, (the adjudicators), but must risk the full PCN penalty to do so, the discount option is lost at that stage. If OP is prepared for this, then go ahead. "Forward the Buffs !!"

[Mad Mick V]

"Forward the Buffs !!" --- I hope you are talking about my father's old regiment and not the RAOB!!

Mick

[cp8759]

First things first, show us the back of the PCN. Also, there's a single yellow line along many of the access roads into the car park. A single yellow line implies that parking is permitted during non-restricted hours, this contradicts the signs which say parking is only allowed in marked bays. So we have confusing / contradicting signage.

I would also get hold of the TRO to confirm the exact boundary of the car park.

[My_space]

First things first, show us the back of the PCN. Also, there's a single yellow line along many of the access roads into the car park. A single yellow line implies that parking is permitted during non-restricted hours, this contradicts the signs which say parking is only allowed in marked bays. So we have confusing / contradicting signage.

I would also get hold of the TRO to confirm the exact boundary of the car park.

back of PCN : https://imgur.com/2mvVOfE

boundry: https://www.barnsley.gov.uk/media/9071/cp11-courthouse.pdf

[cp8759]

First things first, show us the back of the PCN. Also, there's a single yellow line along many of the access roads into the car park. A single yellow line implies that parking is permitted during non-restricted hours, this contradicts the signs which say parking is only allowed in marked bays. So we have confusing / contradicting signage.

I would also get hold of the TRO to confirm the exact boundary of the car park.

back of PCN : https://imgur.com/2mvVOfE

boundry: https://www.barnsley.gov.uk/media/9071/cp11-courthouse.pdf

None of that helps I'm afraid.

[Incandescent]

"Forward the Buffs !!" --- I hope you are talking about my father's old regiment and not the RAOB!!

Mick

Of course !

[My_space]

just to add there is always atleast another car parked at that location which has a permit or ticket but never gets PCN, can i use this in my defence?