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Notice to Owner from County Council
PalecKatarina
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 22:00
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Hi,

We received NTO from County Council and failed informal appeal based on truth about paying via number on machine we used in the past and it was working. This time my wife sent text message and it went through, but after return to car we found fine of £25 now they want £50.
They claim car was parked without clearly displaying a valid pay&display ticket, which is truth it was not done as my wife paid over the phone, she received text message but usually before running out of time she received another one reminding 10 minutes remaining or so, not this time, so that we speeded up, came before expiry time, but ticket was issued as payment did not go through. They claim she sent message in wrong format, but comparing messages which went through in the past, it was the same format anyway.
What about formal appeal?
What it should include please?
Many thanks.
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post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 22:00
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 22:28
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We need to see

The PCN and council photos + a GSV#

Your challenge

The rejection of that challenge

The NTO


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All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
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PalecKatarina
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 23:51
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Ok will add ASAP, please could you clarify what GSV means?
Thank you
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cp8759
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 00:26
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QUOTE (PalecKatarina @ Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 00:51) *
Ok will add ASAP, please could you clarify what GSV means?
Thank you

Google Street View.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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PalecKatarina
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 00:06
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Hi,

Am sending what I can for now, that GSV will take me a while I suppose, but most important bits I will send in attachment.
Thank you for your help.

I am struggling to send over the rest, but will look into it...

This post has been edited by PalecKatarina: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 00:01
Attached thumbnail(s)
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hcandersen
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 07:23
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Can we please not get involved in the detail of machines and text messages but just get the details clear first.


As I understand it, you parked and paid by phone in accordance with the instructions on the machine. So, what is the procedure and how does the system let the motorist know that payment has been accepted? Did you receive this confirmation?

Your suspicions were aroused because unlike in other cases you did not receive a notification that time was nearly expired. This made you wonder whether the initial payment had gone through(l don't understand this part. Unless there was something nagging in your mind about the initial payment, why would you even think this?). Anyway, you returned to the car before expiry of the time you thought you'd paid for and found a PCN because payment was not made.

So, can you prove payment was made i.e. bank account/credit card? If not, then payment was not made and this is unarguable.

As you'd used the system before why and how did this time differ?

Anyway..PCN, your challenge, their reply, NTO(leave in dates and locations) and GSV pl.










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Neil B
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 08:59
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QUOTE (PalecKatarina @ Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 01:06) *
Am sending what I can for now, that GSV will take me a while I suppose, but most important bits I will send in attachment.

I am struggling to send over the rest, but will look into it...

Don't try to attach.
You need to use an external image hosting site; upload there and the 'share' the images by pasting the BB codes
into a reply here.
Try Flickr or Imgur - use BB codes. Or Tinypic - use [IMG] codes.

There are other sites to use.

-----
No GSV is not difficult.
Just Google the location to bring up a map, then drag the little yellow man (bottom right) to the exact
position to bring up a street view.

-----
I already understand your point about the sms but we do need the paperwork.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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PalecKatarina
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:06
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https://imgur.com/a/VGWSZ88 Just a try...

That imgur link is working with images, so hope this is enough, if not will try different page.
My wife was texting as she said no confirmation via text message in the past and this time, so that nothing suspicious, but about 10 minutes before ticket expires she get used to receive text message and she said she did not receive one when she was thinking it is about the time, so that we went anyway and ticket was already issued. Ticket was issued already, payment did not go through. I received in my name NTO, she has done informal representation on devon city council website, so that the content is gone, but it was about that she paid and they argued format of text message, which was the same like 3 times before...( see pictures).
Any more info needed, please let me know, I will send that GSV and believe it is all you asked. Thank you for your help.

https://goo.gl/maps/a76rowMse8D2


The machine is on the right

This post has been edited by PalecKatarina: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:11
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stamfordman
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:20
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I don't see what you can do here other than grovel and ask for the discount back.

Your docs are cut off at the left side but it seems your wife made a mistake with the format of the text?

It's best to set these pay by phone systems to send a text when parking starts as well as about to expire (which you can do on Ringgo for example). What system is this?

Also, I would use the app and not text messages to buy parking.



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PalecKatarina
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:32
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Yes they replied it was sent ( message) in incorrect format, but from pictures of mobile phone you can see it was sent in the same format like before, what is the reason we have been thinking if it was not their technical fault.
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stamfordman
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:42
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QUOTE (PalecKatarina @ Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 12:32) *
Yes they replied it was sent ( message) in incorrect format, but from pictures of mobile phone you can see it was sent in the same format like before, what is the reason we have been thinking if it was not their technical fault.



Ah OK - I can see it looks right - 120 mins. You have nothing to lose by pressing on then. I would call phoneandpay and ask them was happened. I take it you've checked the online account - is there anything at all for that location on that day?

https://www.phoneandpay.co.uk/contactus.asp

I would certainly opt for the confirmation text in future.

I take it you can park for 2 hours at that location?

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:44
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cp8759
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 17:50
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Show us the back of the PCN


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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PalecKatarina
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 23:39
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Hi Guys,

Here is the requested link:
https://imgur.com/a/anTJvSP

Yes it was for 2 hours parking, we checked online account, no transaction on the day, wife will ring them tomorrow if there was any fault in their machine or system.
The question is that must have been as she texted, has proof also we took time from the machine that we have been not late, so not sure why it did not go through, but I agree that she needs to change the way she pays, which she will do now of course.
Thank you for your help.

I added again NTO, so that it is readable
https://imgur.com/a/anTJvSP
Thank you
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cp8759
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 18:00
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The back of the PCN is correct and the rejection is well considered and the wording around the consideration of further informal reps is the best I've seen. I don't know if Devon re-offer the discount at the NtO stage but you have nothing to go on other than discretion.


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If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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stamfordman
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 18:09
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 19:00) *
I don't know if Devon re-offer the discount at the NtO stage but you have nothing to go on other than discretion.


Hold on - the text format worked before though.

And the app company says:

For example: if you park at location 2500 for 60 minutes with payment card security code 530, you text: 2500 60 530

There are spaces there. I would have thought spaces are important to this format.

Seems to be worth finding out from parking app company what went wrong.

I presume the security code is matched with the mobile number.

Thing that can go wrong could be expiry of payment card.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 19:29
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PalecKatarina
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 22:08
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Security code is matched with the mobile number, wife's payment card was not expired when she attempted to pay. Spaces she has done like before...
https://imgur.com/a/L7NVQLr

They gave option to pay by text message, she has done it, now she will download app, but this is not the point, wiser going forward, but there is clear option of sending text message, nowhere written about choices of confirmation if it went through or not and as you can see from the past, there are 4 digits as for location, space, then time in numbers, space and security code of card paid...

My wife will ring tomorrow to find out if there was problem on their part because it did not go through.
It was technical problem for sure, but we have been looking into card on our side, but we have got proof we did not extend the time, just payment did not go through, but text message went through, so, which is weird...

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PalecKatarina
post Mon, 22 Oct 2018 - 23:46
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Not much help from Phone and Pay at present, they are sorry we received PCN, written reply for my question if there was some issues with their machine on the day, some voicemessages in general only, so will need to change tactics and get some proper info from them ASAP.
Any other ideas, please let me know. Thank you
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PalecKatarina
post Wed, 24 Oct 2018 - 00:19
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Hello,

This is reply I received today:

Good afternoon,



Phone and Pay offer the cashless payment service in order to pay for parking, we do not enforce or issue parking charge notices.



As we can confirm your attempt to make a booking on the day we advise you to appeal against the paring charge notice by contacting the car park operator directly.





Kind Regards,



Customer Support

Phone and Pay Parking

Tel: 01727 229 225

www.phoneandpay.co.uk



Thank you for using the "Phone and Pay" service. To view parking history, download VAT receipts and manage your account please go to www.phoneandpay.co.uk

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stamfordman
post Wed, 24 Oct 2018 - 08:06
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QUOTE (PalecKatarina @ Wed, 24 Oct 2018 - 01:19) *
As we can confirm your attempt to make a booking on the day we advise you to appeal against the paring charge notice by contacting the car park operator directly.



Well that's something - but I would try and pin them down as to why it didn't work. It makes it seem like your fault.
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PalecKatarina
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 21:47
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I approached them again, they replied ''Can you confirm how you attempted to book the parking session'', so that I referred them to my descriptive email from 22/10/2018 and duplicated via text message...
Will see, it seems they do not want to admit it was their fault, maybe they are worried I pass the claim on them?
Will inform you about progress...
Thank you
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