PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Parking charge notice (hospital) - date query etc, Is this a legitimate claim?
crunchyfrog555
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 07:26
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56
Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Member No.: 20,908



Yesterday, I received in the mail a Parking charge notice from Parking Eye who operate a private car park at our nearest hospital. This is the first contact Ive had with them, so from what Ive read thus far, this is referred to as Notice to Keeper?

My immediate thought was to just ignore it, but looking at this letter again, there seem to be a few queries. If Ive read the rules correctly, they must send the notice within 14 days of the incident if no prior ticket was issued, or within 56 days if a ticket was issued. I take it I have this correct?

If so, then this claim is invalid on both counts - the incident is listed as 21 June, 12:40 to 13:17. The issue date is 16 August.


If Im correct here, should I knock up a letter informing them its invalid for these reasons, or should i just ignore it?

Im tempted by the latter, but i dont want to do so then find out later its too late to appeal if things gonawry. If things do go awry, I dont even know if i was driving at that time or not (this is a hospital i was visiting frequently until recently) but so has my wife. My memorys pretty **** due to the tablets i have to take, and any hospital appointment letters get binned once theyre done, so i have nothing to check back on. If push comes to shove, Id be more inclined to take it on the chin and say it was me, but is it not reasonable for them to prove who was driving? Am i under any obligation?

I can happily provide a photo of the letter if it helps.

Please let me know what you think. Thanks for your time.


Edit: It is an ANPR type notice - two photos of the car. One front facing at time of arrival, one rear facing at time of departure.

This post has been edited by crunchyfrog555: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 08:32
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 18)
Advertisement
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 07:26
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Jlc
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 07:45
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31,340
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



Does the rear of the PCN mention 'Protection of Freedoms Act'?

QUOTE (crunchyfrog555 @ Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 08:26) *
...or should i just ignore it?

ParkingEye are extremely litigious - we generally don't advise ignoring them.

QUOTE (crunchyfrog555 @ Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 08:26) *
Am i under any obligation?

None.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
crunchyfrog555
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 08:32
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56
Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Member No.: 20,908



Thanks muchly for the quick response.

First off, an apology. It DOES contain the details of the offence (ill amend the original post). It was on the back above the appeals and privacy info. Same size typeset and font, so i overlooked it.

The rear of the document mentions nothing about protection of freedoms act. It does not mention any of those words at all. Ill upload a photo if you want a closer look.

Thanks for letting me know theyre litigious - I shant ignore it then!

So, just to be clear, if i am under no obligation to provide details of the driver, what should they do to glean this information or rather, what should i see from them?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ManxRed
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 08:38
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9,732
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Member No.: 21,992



In which case you may just have a Golden Ticket - one where they realise they haven't conformed to PoFA, so don't even try to enforce under it, and just hope that you'll cough up.

There's a standard response on here along the lines that you acknowledge that they cannot hold you, as Keeper, liable for the charge due to their failure to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act. That you understand you are under no legal obligation to name the driver, and will not be doing so, and you expect them to cease contacting you on this matter.

It should be relatively easy to find, or draft something similar. That should see them off.


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 08:50
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 21,055
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Easy appeal.
Tell PE to cancel as you as teh KEEPER have no liability
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
crunchyfrog555
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 08:52
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56
Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Member No.: 20,908



QUOTE (ManxRed @ Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:38) *
In which case you may just have a Golden Ticket - one where they realise they haven't conformed to PoFA, so don't even try to enforce under it, and just hope that you'll cough up.

There's a standard response on here along the lines that you acknowledge that they cannot hold you, as Keeper, liable for the charge due to their failure to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act. That you understand you are under no legal obligation to name the driver, and will not be doing so, and you expect them to cease contacting you on this matter.

It should be relatively easy to find, or draft something similar. That should see them off.



Awesome sauce!

That certainly was a response better than Id hoped. Ive been nosing through various stickies and other threads. I havent come across such a template yet, but ill keep nosing.

I should add that my car is a motability lease car (as im disabled). Im not sure if thats remotely relevant, but i mention it nonetheless.

Just to salve my curiosity - was i correct about the date thing too? Closer inspection shows it to be exactly 56 days from the offence to the issue, but as they havent previously put a ticket on the car, its irrelevant?

Just looking to cover all bases, i suppose.

In any case, many thansk for the prompt and really helpful responses.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 08:53
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,109
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



Even better if you can make a definite statement that you weren't the driver

It shouldn't be difficult to tell if it was you or your wife if the front facing picture shows anything of the driver

Does your wife also bin her appointments ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
crunchyfrog555
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:05
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56
Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Member No.: 20,908



QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:53) *
Even better if you can make a definite statement that you weren't the driver

It shouldn't be difficult to tell if it was you or your wife if the front facing picture shows anything of the driver

Does your wife also bin her appointments ?


I cant honestly say i was definitely not the driver - i honestly have no idea. Over this year, and much of the end of last year, weve both been at hospital a lot. My wife with crohns issues, following her been diagnosed and me being hospitalised with kidney stones (yet again) and subsequent repeated treatment.

I finished my treatment sometime in july (in the last few weeks), while she still has appointments to go.

We operate the same system regarding letters - as soon as we get them in the post, they get put on a pile by the phone, into date order. When we have an appointment, we then dont have to hunt down the letter to take to the hospital (ours insists you bring your appointment letter with you). Then we bin it when we get home, as its done with. If id known this was going to happen, id hqve thought twice about binning them.

But anyway, im glad of a simple solution, so many thanks.

Final note for clarity - i found taffys example PPC letter from Parkingeye. Mine looks the same as far as the front goes (photos, charge, etc) except the offence details are moved to the rear and there are no other pages, like the one he has which details pofa. Theres only appeals and complaints procedure and privacy information, which contain nothing in relation.

Hell, even the photos theyve provided are awful. They must have their cameras in an awfulnlocation. You cant even see if theres anyone in the car, just reflections of the clouds overhead. So no clue from that front, even if i were bothered to find out.So i guess theyre being chancers.

This post has been edited by crunchyfrog555: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:15
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:22
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 21,055
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



It beign a lease car matters, as usually the first notioce will have gone to the lease company

So obviouisy it will take more than 14 days to get to the actual Keeper.

However, as a Lease car they MUST provide copies ofthe lease documents. They never do. See para 13 and 14.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
crunchyfrog555
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:32
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56
Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Member No.: 20,908



QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 10:22) *
It beign a lease car matters, as usually the first notioce will have gone to the lease company

So obviouisy it will take more than 14 days to get to the actual Keeper.

However, as a Lease car they MUST provide copies ofthe lease documents. They never do. See para 13 and 14.



Cheers for the extra info.

They really play fast and loose with their duties, dont they?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:35
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 21,055
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



It isnt a duty. Just the only way they can recover from the keeper.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
crunchyfrog555
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:46
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56
Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Member No.: 20,908



QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 10:35) *
It isnt a duty. Just the only way they can recover from the keeper.


Fair enough.

I have a quick query which i have some confusion over. Reading through the other stickies here (namely this one -http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=83803), it seems to say that i am under no obligation to advise them of the driver if im in scotland, but it DOESNT apply to england and wales. Have i got that right?

Im in england, so if that is the case, how can i still legitimately refuse? What am i getting wrong?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:51
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 21,055
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



No, you have not got that right.

in NO location are you under an obligation to tell them the identity of the driver. Otherwise POFA would be utterly redundant!

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:51
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 09:51
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 31,340
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



For private parking you are never required to name the driver. In England/Wales they can recover from the keeper (for the driver's parking charge) if they comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act.

There is no presumption the keeper was driving.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
crunchyfrog555
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 10:22
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56
Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Member No.: 20,908



QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 10:51) *
No, you have not got that right.

in NO location are you under an obligation to tell them the identity of the driver. Otherwise POFA would be utterly redundant!



QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 10:51) *
For private parking you are never required to name the driver. In England/Wales they can recover from the keeper (for the driver's parking charge) if they comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act.

There is no presumption the keeper was driving.



Aaaah! I see. Guess i was confusing public and private land.

Thanks once again. You are all real stars for your excellent advice.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 18:52
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,441
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



I have a feeling that for motability the V5 is in the name of the disabled person. Can the OP check what name is on the V5 please?

If so then the usual hire car let out does not work. But the out of time does.

For the date thing the PCN has to be RECEIVED within 14 days if no windscreen ticket or RECEIVED within 56 days if there is. So a letter dated on day 13 is too late as it assumed delivery is 2 WORKING days later.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
crunchyfrog555
post Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 23:23
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56
Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Member No.: 20,908



QUOTE (ostell @ Tue, 20 Aug 2019 - 19:52) *
I have a feeling that for motability the V5 is in the name of the disabled person. Can the OP check what name is on the V5 please?

If so then the usual hire car let out does not work. But the out of time does.

For the date thing the PCN has to be RECEIVED within 14 days if no windscreen ticket or RECEIVED within 56 days if there is. So a letter dated on day 13 is too late as it assumed delivery is 2 WORKING days later.


Yup, I can confirm that it is me on the v5 doc. However, I believe from what Ive been told here, I still am under no obligation to tell them the driver regardless (remember, i dont even know to any certainty).

But thank you for the date error confirmation. Ill certainly put both of these things down in my response to them, when i tdll thrm to desist.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 11:58
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,441
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



OK, that little bit is cleared up, they have failed to deliver within 14 days.

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc


Send first class with free certificate of posting from a post office
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
crunchyfrog555
post Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 12:57
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 56
Joined: 7 Jul 2008
Member No.: 20,908



QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 21 Aug 2019 - 12:58) *
OK, that little bit is cleared up, they have failed to deliver within 14 days.

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the relevant period of 14 days as prescribed by section 9 (4) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc


Send first class with free certificate of posting from a post office



Man, thats awesome. Big thank you!

Ill scribble it out now and get the missus to send it later.

Thanks again to everyone who offered sage advice.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Tuesday, 17th September 2019 - 17:18
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.