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Section 172 - Drivers Account Question / Circumstances
Mark LE14
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 07:40
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Hi all, Thanks for your time reading this. I got this in the post yesterday and need help/advice please if anyone can;

Was involved in an accident,; the other driver drove off before I could speak to him. He had turned right out a side road in front of me, gave me verbal abuse as I had sounded my horn. His car then didn't manoeuvre into his lane fully and his rear corner bumper scraped down the side of my car when I went past. He then proceeded off - I was in heavy traffic, eventually turned around but he was long gone. I havent claimed on my insurance as its already high being a new (2nd year) driver.

Now got a S172 "Application for Name and Address". It says (the car) "is alleged to have been driven.. dangeroursly, carelessly or without reasonable consideration using the road..."

Reading up I'm confused if this is a NIP or as there was an accident the NIP is not needed and this Application for driver details means its to be treated the same.

I have no issue giving my details; but Part 4 - Drivers account of alleged incident I'm not sure about - given they dont specify what or why / the circumstances until the S172 has been sent back . Should give a full account or leave it and then see what the circumstances are (I guess its the other driver but strange he had my reg, and he drove off)? In hindsight/looking into it last night I should have reported to the police maybe but as I didn't think it was my fault I didn't. Could that be covered by the allegations or is that a separate thing?

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post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 07:40
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Jlc
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 07:47
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Certain offences need a NIP (including dangerous/careless), but the time limit (14 days) to serve one does not apply with an accident.

The s172 request needs responding to - I would simply supply your details for now. In most circumstances, the Police will get insurers involved and not actually prosecute.

You should tell your insurer ASAP.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 07:48


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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peterguk
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 08:00
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QUOTE (Mark LE14 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 08:40) *
In hindsight/looking into it last night I should have reported to the police maybe but as I didn't think it was my fault I didn't. Could that be covered by the allegations or is that a separate thing?


Failure to report is a separate offence. Do it now.


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Redivi
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 08:39
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His car then didn't manoeuvre into his lane fully and his rear corner bumper scraped down the side of my car when I went past

So which car was moving ?
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 10:18
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 09:39) *
His car then didn't manoeuvre into his lane fully and his rear corner bumper scraped down the side of my car when I went past

So which car was moving ?

Sounds like just the OP if it was all the way down the side of the car.

OP I wouldn't say it is as clear cut as you say, just because he pulls out and leaves his rear bumper sticking out doesn't mean you can hit it unless it was impossible to brake or move across the lane.

Don't put any details of the incident on the form, it is easy to mean well but actually put your foot in it. Just fill out your details.

As has been said it is very likely that the police will just put your insurance companies in touch and that will be the end of it - so make sure you have informed them. The bad news is if he was stationary I can't see it going more than 50/50 blame. It will depend what he says of course. Driving off is poor form but slightly immaterial if he has reported it to the police as you were both required to do.


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My username is notmeatloaf because I'm not made of meat loaf. I hope that clarifies things.
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Mark LE14
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 10:40
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Hi - Thanks - I will go report it today then - should I mention I have the S172 or just go in and report it do you think?

When the damage occurred my car I was moving moving slowly having had to break sharply when he pulled out the side road. He had slowed down/stopped and had his window down in order to shout abuse at me. Side damage to my car.


QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 11:18) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 09:39) *
His car then didn't manoeuvre into his lane fully and his rear corner bumper scraped down the side of my car when I went past

So which car was moving ?

Sounds like just the OP if it was all the way down the side of the car.

OP I wouldn't say it is as clear cut as you say, just because he pulls out and leaves his rear bumper sticking out doesn't mean you can hit it unless it was impossible to brake or move across the lane.

Don't put any details of the incident on the form, it is easy to mean well but actually put your foot in it. Just fill out your details.

As has been said it is very likely that the police will just put your insurance companies in touch and that will be the end of it - so make sure you have informed them. The bad news is if he was stationary I can't see it going more than 50/50 blame. It will depend what he says of course. Driving off is poor form but slightly immaterial if he has reported it to the police as you were both required to do.


Thank-you, yes, I agree with your points thanks very much. Do you think I should go report it to the police too? Hopefully it just goes to the insurers then, and I agree its likely to be argued 50/50 between them at best I think based on this.

QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 11:18) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 09:39) *
His car then didn't manoeuvre into his lane fully and his rear corner bumper scraped down the side of my car when I went past

So which car was moving ?

Sounds like just the OP if it was all the way down the side of the car.

OP I wouldn't say it is as clear cut as you say, just because he pulls out and leaves his rear bumper sticking out doesn't mean you can hit it unless it was impossible to brake or move across the lane.

Don't put any details of the incident on the form, it is easy to mean well but actually put your foot in it. Just fill out your details.

As has been said it is very likely that the police will just put your insurance companies in touch and that will be the end of it - so make sure you have informed them. The bad news is if he was stationary I can't see it going more than 50/50 blame. It will depend what he says of course. Driving off is poor form but slightly immaterial if he has reported it to the police as you were both required to do.


Thank-you, yes, I agree with your points thanks very much. Do you think I should go report it to the police too? Hopefully it just goes to the insurers then, and I agree its likely to be argued 50/50 between them at best I think based on this.
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peterguk
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 10:44
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QUOTE (Mark LE14 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 11:40) *
Do you think I should go report it to the police too?

Of course!


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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 10:46
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So if both vehicles were moving slowly were you not able to brake or move towards your nearside rather than dragging the entire length of your car down the bumper?

Think about it carefully because when you go to report the police will ask for a description and you to draw a diagram. Careless driving only requires that you "fall below the standards of a careful and competent driver". It is quite possible for both of you to be careless, him for pulling out and you for not taking reasonable evasive action.

You don't want to give the police an account that shows you were careless - you must of course tell the truth but phrased carefully.

Do report but be aware you have missed the deadline - ASAP or in any case within 24hrs so the offence is complete.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 10:47


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My username is notmeatloaf because I'm not made of meat loaf. I hope that clarifies things.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 12:08
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 11:44) *
QUOTE (Mark LE14 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 11:40) *
Do you think I should go report it to the police too?

Of course!

As the police are already involved I see no benefit at all in doing so, the offence has already been committed of failing to stop/report.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
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PPC PCN's
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southpaw82
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 12:09
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 08:47) *
Certain offences need a NIP (including dangerous/careless), but the time limit (14 days) to serve one does not apply with an accident.

Are you sure? If there has been an accident then the whole of s 1(1) is disapplied, not just the time limit.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 12:13
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I agree, in theory they could just summons the driver to court (accepting the wouldn't know who the driver was, but could identify via an S172 request that DID NOT include a NIP).


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Jlc
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 12:35
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 13:09) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 08:47) *
Certain offences need a NIP (including dangerous/careless), but the time limit (14 days) to serve one does not apply with an accident.

Are you sure? If there has been an accident then the whole of s 1(1) is disapplied, not just the time limit.

Good point. A lack of NIP would not be a bar to prosecution - a s172 is of course required to establish the driver identity and is not subject to a 14 day time limit.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Mark LE14
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:36
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I have just found out I have actually been sent a NIP on the same date as the Request for Driver info. The NIP has the same details but sent to an old address - no idea why. Does the issue of the NIP change anything - is there still the chance it will get looked at, details of insurers sent to each other and that be it? What comes next? Do I hear back if they will prosecute or not? thanks
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The Rookie
post Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:42
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Have you checked your car is registered to the correct address?

As it’s been firmly established above that no NIP is needed, where it went would be an irrelevance.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 17 Jul 2018 - 16:43


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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