PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Questions regarding NIP, insurance, and points, help HUGELY appreciated., Threads merged
neckstream1
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 11:09
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 9 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,794



Hi,

Firstly, i'd like to say thanks for reading this post, and another big thanks to anyone who volunteers some help. It's great to see the community in action here for those times where there's been a real error in the process of serving justice, and helping the defenceless people fight back.

So to tell you a bit about my situation: I currently have 6 points on my license for speeding, and my car has recently been caught by a speed van doing 35 and 39 in a 30 zone twice in the same week. (35mph and 39mph respectively) I'm legitimately surprised, because after the 6 points last year, i've enabled an audible speed limit notification on my car and have made a concerted effort to go slow.

This is where the situation gets a bit tricky: my sister often shares my commute to work with me. She sometimes drives the car, and i sometimes drive the car. We were fairly sure that she was the one driving for one of the two NIP's issued; she has a clean license. The trouble is, we were driving under the assumption that her fully comp insurance had driving other's cars enabled. It now seems that her renewal (which took place just before these speed traps) stripped her DOC from her insurance.

She had my explicit permission to use my car, and my car has fully comp+DOC, but now we are in this situation and i have a few questions:



1) If we submit the NIP back with her license details, is there a way in which any person or system automatically checks her details against her insurance. Is this likely? could she get in trouble with her insurer, and if so, would it be a more serious offence than the speeding? I'm not so much looking for the worst-case scenario, just the most likely.

2) We're having a genuinely hard time working out who was driving for the second ticket: our gut instinct both says it was my sister, and in the name of full disclosure i truly hope that it was her, since the extra three points as mentioned would bring me up to twelve but her to only three. If we fill in the NIP with her details, do they automatically cross reference the gender with the photo/video evidence? Instead of worst case scenario again, is there any indication of how likely this is? I don't have access to it save for after a summons (i think) and if it were to be me unexpectedly driving on that day, it would be a genuine mistake on our part.

3) The alternative is for me to register for the full 6 points, which would take me up to 12 points and result in a 6 month ban, i assume. I don't have the money for a lawyer, and i doubt i would be able to argue for serious/mitigating circumstances. If i were to ignore the NIP, and wait for a summons, is there any sense to trying to have the tickets quashed on technical grounds? The 35mph one seems pretty dubious to me, as i was nearly certain that would have been me driving purposefully slow. My fear is that should i plead not guilty to one or both tickets, the judge would rule it a 'wasteful' challenge (i don't know the terminology, sorry) and issue 6 points instead of the original 3, rendering the whole excercise pointless and costly. Any hints on whether it is worth starting this process? I can easily append all the details of the tickets that i have.


Any advice on this issue would mean a great deal to me and my sister. Needless to say, a 6 month ban would be truly ruinous for my life. I understand that speeding is a serious offense, and yet the location of this trap on this country road with confusing signeage, (A32 Warnford like a couple of previous posters, also the site of my year-old 6 points) i agree with others that it feels less like justice and more like a cynical cash grab; the kind that the posters on this forum are devoted to fighting back against.

If you've read this far, i thank you wholeheartedly.

Best,

Confused Driver


EDIT: Thanks for the swift replies, one and all. I have a couple of follow up questions if you all wouldn't mind delving back in to my case:

Okay, i'm thinking that if my sister was not insured to drive, i can't risk putting her down as the driver if there is ANY ambiguity. I'll ask for the pictures to help identify the driver, and see where to go from there.

Now that i'm preparing for a worst case scenario, a summons to court for 12 points:

How long would this take to go to court? Will i have time to prepare for a 6 month ban?

Is 6 months the bare minimum? My offences are all for speeding, no more than 39mph, all on the same road, three within the same week. I have evidence that after the first ticket i upgraded my car to help me to not speed (yes, i know it didn't work, please don't judge!) and one of the subsequent tickets is for 35mph, which i believe is just on the edge of what they normally prosecute for? I've heard that in some cases, if i plead guilty and let them know how sorry i am, they may reduce the length of the ban... is this just a myth?

Finally, is it worth hiring a lawyer to fight the 35mph ticket on technical grounds? i have no idea of the ballpark costs but i would like to know some. Also, if somebody can recommend a reasonably priced phoneline to get some initial advice, i'd be grateful.

Thanks again, i appreciate it massively.




This post has been edited by neckstream1: Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:57
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 11:09
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
The Rookie
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 12:00
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39,445
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



In answer to 1, there are no routine checks on whether the person nominated is insured to drive that car, simply put its next to impossible for them to check all the ways a driver could be insured. The key is to give them no reason to look any deeper.

2/ Its not routine but if the photos are obviously in disagreement then they will query it, its usually just a polite request to reconsider the nomination, you could ask for photos to help clarify the drivers before making the nomination, most forces will oblige.

3/ If you think your sister was driving that would be a bad idea, nominating the wrong driver when you believe its wrong is perverting the course of justice and typically involved a sentence to 12 months eating food off a steel tray and avoiding already occupied showers.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 12:37
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,830
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 12:09) *
2) We're having a genuinely hard time working out who was driving for the second ticket: our gut instinct both says it was my sister...

First step would be to request (for both?) photo's to assist you in the driver nomination. They often supply - this may (or may not) clear matters up. The 28 clock doesn't stop though.

QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 12:09) *
3) ...If i were to ignore the NIP, and wait for a summons, is there any sense to trying to have the tickets quashed on technical grounds?

Depends on what you mean by ignoring the NIP. Failing to nominate the driver will see 6 points (each time). There is a statutory defence that if you did not know the driver nor with reasonable diligence identify them - but this can be risky.

QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 12:09) *
The 35mph one seems pretty dubious to me, as i was nearly certain that would have been me driving purposefully slow. My fear is that should i plead not guilty to one or both tickets, the judge would rule it a 'wasteful' challenge (i don't know the terminology, sorry) and issue 6 points instead of the original 3, rendering the whole excercise pointless and costly. Any hints on whether it is worth starting this process? I can easily append all the details of the tickets that i have.

Those excesses are still only 3 points at court each. However, without a defence maintaining a not guilty plea will be a very costly experience indeed. Assuming the signage/traffic order is correct there's little reason to doubt the measurement...

QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 12:09) *
...and yet the location of this trap on this country road with confusing signeage

Expand on confusing signage?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neckstream1
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:00
Post #4


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 9 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,794



QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:00) *
In answer to 1, there are no routine checks on whether the person nominated is insured to drive that car, simply put its next to impossible for them to check all the ways a driver could be insured. The key is to give them no reason to look any deeper.


Thanks so much for the reply: your help is appreciated so much! So, what would constitute a reason for them to look deeper?

For instance, I filled out the original NIP forms and realised that i had filled them With the wrong license details for each offence, (i.e. i put my sister's license on the wrong NIP and mine on the other) so then i called them to ask for replacement NIP forms.... Do you think this would constitute enough of a reason for them to have a deep look at the situation?

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:00) *
If you think your sister was driving that would be a bad idea, nominating the wrong driver when you believe its wrong is perverting the course of justice and typically involved a sentence to 12 months eating food off a steel tray and avoiding already occupied showers.


This is what i'm truly terrified of. If we both use all of our best reasoning to work out who was in the car, pay the COFP, get the points etc, but have the person identified wrongly, could it happen that years later - as with the notorious Huhne case - it comes back to punish us years later despite the fact that we tried our best to identify the driver?


Thanks!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:09
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,779
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



You make no mention of what you have done to work out who was driving.
You have the dates, times locations and directions. Your problem is a court will find it hard to believe two grown adults couldn't work out who was drvinig for a journey or two a few days earlier.

Phone records? Diaries? Credit debit cards? Appointments and activities? Other family members?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:31
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,468
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



If the police think you have named a driver who they don't think is driving they are much more likely to start looking at insurance.

Potentially six points for you for permitting, six points for your sister for driving.

So the advice above to get the photos, to be certain they don't contradict your nomination, and if you conclude it was your sister driving to make as little fuss as possible is the most pragmatic route.

Obviously if you were driving you can potentially make more of a fuss if you so wish.

If it helps most modern smartphones track your location and you can view it online, so if at least one of you has that functionality you can be sure who is driving.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neckstream1
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:44
Post #7


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 9 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,794



QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 14:31) *
If the police think you have named a driver who they don't think is driving they are much more likely to start looking at insurance.

Potentially six points for you for permitting, six points for your sister for driving.

So the advice above to get the photos, to be certain they don't contradict your nomination, and if you conclude it was your sister driving to make as little fuss as possible is the most pragmatic route.

Obviously if you were driving you can potentially make more of a fuss if you so wish.

If it helps most modern smartphones track your location and you can view it online, so if at least one of you has that functionality you can be sure who is driving.


Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it. I also have some followup questions for you and the other people who kindly took the time to reply. I'll try to edit the post to include them.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NeverMind
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 14:54
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 429
Joined: 15 Oct 2011
From: England
Member No.: 50,387



QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 14:44) *
Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate it. I also have some followup questions for you and the other people who kindly took the time to reply. I'll try to edit the post to include them.


Eh? That's a bit of a weird way to do it ... why not just put them in a new post?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 15:11
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39,445
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



The additional info that should have been a new post
QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 12:09) *
EDIT: Thanks for the swift replies, one and all. I have a couple of follow up questions if you all wouldn't mind delving back in to my case:

Okay, i'm thinking that if my sister was not insured to drive, i can't risk putting her down as the driver if there is ANY ambiguity. I'll ask for the pictures to help identify the driver, and see where to go from there.

Now that i'm preparing for a worst case scenario, a summons to court for 12 points:

How long would this take to go to court? Will i have time to prepare for a 6 month ban?

Is 6 months the bare minimum? My offences are all for speeding, no more than 39mph, all on the same road, three within the same week. I have evidence that after the first ticket i upgraded my car to help me to not speed (yes, i know it didn't work, please don't judge!) and one of the subsequent tickets is for 35mph, which i believe is just on the edge of what they normally prosecute for? I've heard that in some cases, if i plead guilty and let them know how sorry i am, they may reduce the length of the ban... is this just a myth?

Finally, is it worth hiring a lawyer to fight the 35mph ticket on technical grounds? i have no idea of the ballpark costs but i would like to know some. Also, if somebody can recommend a reasonably priced phoneline to get some initial advice, i'd be grateful.

Thanks again, i appreciate it massively.



A totting ban triggered by 12 points is almost always for 6 months, it can be reduced with an exceptional hardship plea, potentially to zero, the nature of the criminality that saw the points awarded isn't relevant at all.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 15:13
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,830
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 12:09) *
How long would this take to go to court? Will i have time to prepare for a 6 month ban?

Depends on what you mean by prepare but normally it takes many months and often close to 6 months after the offence.

QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 12:09) *
Is 6 months the bare minimum? My offences are all for speeding, no more than 39mph, all on the same road, three within the same week. I have evidence that after the first ticket i upgraded my car to help me to not speed (yes, i know it didn't work, please don't judge!) and one of the subsequent tickets is for 35mph, which i believe is just on the edge of what they normally prosecute for? I've heard that in some cases, if i plead guilty and let them know how sorry i am, they may reduce the length of the ban... is this just a myth?

6 months would likely be the maximum here. You can reduce this, to potentially none, with a successful exceptional hardship plea. (This would normally have to focus on the hardship of others)

Simply telling them how sorry you are won't cut it. How the points were accumulated is not a factor either.

QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 12:09) *
Finally, is it worth hiring a lawyer to fight the 35mph ticket on technical grounds? i have no idea of the ballpark costs but i would like to know some. Also, if somebody can recommend a reasonably priced phoneline to get some initial advice, i'd be grateful.

What technical grounds? I asked earlier about the 'confusing signage'...

QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 14:00) *
For instance, I filled out the original NIP forms and realised that i had filled them With the wrong license details for each offence, (i.e. i put my sister's license on the wrong NIP and mine on the other) so then i called them to ask for replacement NIP forms.... Do you think this would constitute enough of a reason for them to have a deep look at the situation?

I doubt it - actually you don't have to use their forms as long as you provide all of the necessary information, signed. Get on asking for the photo's, or indeed making a phone call has been known to produce results - i.e. they may state if the driver is visible at all and whether male or female...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
notmeatloaf
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 15:54
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,468
Joined: 4 Mar 2017
Member No.: 90,659



You are overthinking it at this stage. Your task at the moment is to name the driver, or at least the most likely driver.

I don't really see what purpose discussing the various permutations serves at this stage other than to potentially fetter your judgement.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Logician
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 16:24
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 11,464
Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Member No.: 36,528



So far no one seems to have pointed out that a speed of up to 42mph in a 30mph limit is likely to lead to the offer of a speed awareness course if the offence occurred in England or Wales (not Scotland) and the driver has not previously done such a course for an offence committed in the previous three years.


--------------------



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
andy_foster
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 16:35
Post #13


Member
Group Icon

Group: Life Member
Posts: 20,321
Joined: 9 Sep 2004
From: Reading
Member No.: 1,624



QUOTE (Jlc @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 13:37) *
QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 12:09) *
3) ...If i were to ignore the NIP, and wait for a summons, is there any sense to trying to have the tickets quashed on technical grounds?

Depends on what you mean by ignoring the NIP. Failing to nominate the driver will see 6 points (each time). There is a statutory defence that if you did not know the driver nor with reasonable diligence identify them - but this can be risky.


If the OP ignores the s. 172 requirement entirely, then the statutory defence would not help as they would clearly have not provided information that was in their power to give and that might have lead to the identification of the driver.

@OP, if you want to rely on any technical defences to the underlying speeding allegations, you need to name the driver - otherwise the relevant offence will be failing to name the driver (as indicated above).


--------------------
Andy

Millenial (noun): a person who is offended at being told "Suck it up, buttercup"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 16:41
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,830
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



Yes, sorry to conflate the two - the statutory defence isn’t a magic bullet to completely ignoring the request.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ocelot
post Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 18:28
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 2,795
Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Member No.: 1,326



QUOTE (Logician @ Mon, 9 Jul 2018 - 17:24) *
So far no one seems to have pointed out that a speed of up to 42mph in a 30mph limit is likely to lead to the offer of a speed awareness course if the offence occurred in England or Wales (not Scotland) and the driver has not previously done such a course for an offence committed in the previous three years.


I was wondering why no one had mentioned that. OP - have you done such a course in the last 3 years?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neckstream1
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 11:40
Post #16


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 9 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,794



Hi all,

This post is a continuation of http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=121401 and again i'd like to start with a pre-emptive thanks to everyone who contributes to the answers.

So to summarise, i have been caught speeding on the exact same road, same spot, 3 times within 3 weeks. My sister often splits the journey with me and drives, but we were unaware that her insurance had had it's DOC stripped, so it's likely that if she were driving in one of the tickets, she was doing so without proper insurance. Needless to say, we had no idea that this was against the law and neither of us would intentionally break the law in any way. I know ignorance is no defence, and have immediately corrected the insurance discrepancy.

The photos provided by the Summary Justice Unit did not help to identify either of us, and though it seems likely that she was driving based on only gut sentiment, we can't take the chance that sending her license details would trigger an investigation into her insurance status:

Some commenters have said this is very unlikely, some have said it's likely, since i have asked for pictures and therefore may have notified the police to an irregularity in the case. I'd welcome any feedback on this about anecdotally how likely or unlikely it it is. I know there are plenty of examples of horror stories, and yet from what i've gathered when speaking to friends and colleagues, many people have been in similar positions and inadvertantly or otherwise nominated a spouse without triggering any deeper investigations: Again, i know that it's an offense to nominate the wrong driver and i can assure everyone that we have done our best, and that we are erring on the side of sensibility and nominating me even though the cost will be severe.

So, at the end of this week, i will have 9 points. Not 12, as originally thought. I am not eligible for an awareness course, since i had one two years and 4 months ago, for another sp30 in the same road at the same spot. After this old offence, i upgraded the head unit in my old citroen to include speed alerts in an attempt to control my speed (i have reciepts for this). I'm aware that the offences by themselves paint a picture of me as a constant speeder, and i'll not argue with that perception; all i can say in my defense is that only once every few years do i venture into the country a-roads around hampshire, and i found the transition between 30, 40, and 60 zones a little confusing, especially since the TOMTOM CARMINAT system has some demonstrable errors in what it displays the speed limit as (maybe it doesn't update itself frequently enough) these are all my mistakes though, and ones i will pay dearly for.

Now to the crux of my question: I read in a post here recently that the police have some degree of discretion over the ticketing procedure, and previously people have written to them with a plea. I can't find the post now, though, which is frustrating, but it said there is some precedent for the notion that sometimes offences happen within a short window, before the driver has time to receive an NIP and correct his driving style. I was clocked at 35 in a 30 (which i truly believe was actually 33mph because of the afformentioned telematics in my car) which i think is just on the boundary of an acceptable threshold.

I'd like to phrase the above in such a way as to ask that i be allowed to attend a speeding awareness course earlier than normal, so that i might be able to re-educate myself on better ways to recognise speed signage, rather than becoming one of those paranoid 9 point divers who slam on the breaks every time they see a flash of yellow or blue.

I know the odds are against me, and i'm not looking for judgement on my speeding or people to tell me how stupid i am; i already know that. What i would truly appreciate is if someone with insight or experience could help to shape my plea, or maybe let me know of any useful precedents to cite in my letter, or just constructive advice on the best way to go ahead with things.

Best wishes to all,

Confused Driver
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neckstream1
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 11:43
Post #17


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 9 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,794



Thread updated in new post. My heartfelt thanks to Ocelot, Andy_foster, Jlc, logician, nevermind, peterguk, the rookie, and notmeatloaf
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 11:43
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,779
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 12:40) *

so why start a new thread instead of adding to that one? rolleyes.gif
A mod will merge.

You seem to be trying to decide the outcome prior to deciding who was driving.

You need to work out who was drving FIRST. Have you requested photos as you were advised?

This post has been edited by peterguk: Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 11:45


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
neckstream1
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 11:46
Post #19


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 9 Jul 2018
Member No.: 98,794



Apolgies, i'm terrible at forums sad.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
StuartBu
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 11:53
Post #20


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 6,099
Joined: 1 Jan 2013
From: Glasgow
Member No.: 59,097



QUOTE (neckstream1 @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 12:43) *
Thread updated in new post. My heartfelt thanks to Ocelot, Andy_foster, Jlc, logician, nevermind, peterguk, the rookie, and notmeatloaf


When they said "new post" they meant within this existing thread not a completely new thread .
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Friday, 21st September 2018 - 10:46
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.