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Parking Eye PCN issued to an EV - for being in an EV parking bay
Hattiesdad
post Fri, 5 Jun 2015 - 21:16
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Hi All,
I have been directed here from a user on speakEV forum regarding a PCN recently issued by Parking Eye.
On a recent visit to Ikea in Nottingham we were issued with a PCN by parking eye. The circumstances surrounding it are (we think) pretty unbelievable.
As Ikea promote charging points at their stores we headed first to the charging point intending to put the car on charge. However, there was already a vehicle in one of the two bays already charging their car with the cable we required for ours. So we parked in the second charging bay and as we already know it takes 20 plus minutes for a charge and the other car had only just started we went inside and directly to the cafe for a cuppa. Twenty odd minutes later, returned to attach the cable to our car only to find a PCN from parking eye on the windscreen. Reason for Issue - Electric Vehicles Only. Couldnt believe it, headed back into Ikea to the info desk to be told the car park was nothing to do with them but there is a management office on site. Went to the office and to cut a long story short tracked down the attendant who issued the ticket.
She told us she didnt know it was an electric car as it wasnt plugged in! Despite it being covered in badges saying EV etc! Anyway, she cant withdraw the ticket etc and we would have to call parking eye on the number on the card enclosed with the ticket. Anyway, when Monday arrived I called the number which is an automated payment line only so have had to submit an appeal to them enclosing a copy of the reg doc to prove we were in an electric vehicle.
We have heard plenty of horror stories regarding private parking companies but cant see they really have a leg to stand on. Nowhere do any signs say you cant park your EV in an EV space unless it is plugged in! Its pretty normal to park in an empty EV bay while waiting for your turn to charge. Any advice would be much appreciated.
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post Fri, 5 Jun 2015 - 21:16
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Skiddaw
post Fri, 5 Jun 2015 - 21:28
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Sounds like the same parking attendant shown in the you tube video. Obviously she is aiming for promotion.

However the process is the same. Await NTK. Soft appeal to PE with a copy of the V5 reg document showing proof of being an electric vehicle.
Then POPLA appeal if required. Don't reveal the driver.
Search the other IKEA threads on here and mse.


This post has been edited by Skiddaw: Fri, 5 Jun 2015 - 21:30
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StrangeMan
post Fri, 5 Jun 2015 - 21:39
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QUOTE (Skiddaw @ Fri, 5 Jun 2015 - 22:28) *
Sounds like the same parking attendant shown in the you tube video. Obviously she is aiming for promotion.

However the process is the same. Await NTK. Soft appeal to PE with a copy of the V5 reg document showing proof of being an electric vehicle.
Then POPLA appeal if required. Don't reveal the driver.
Search the other IKEA threads on here and mse.


To be honest, I wouldn't send them the V5. Send them the make and model, and tell them to Google it. State clearly that as T&Cs of parking were NOT broken you will NOT be paying. Not being plugged in doesn't make it not a EV.
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farmerboy
post Fri, 5 Jun 2015 - 22:10
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Welcome to the world of private parking. You also need to get onto customer services at IKEA demanding it to be cancelled. PE are predatory but the forum will guide you. Did you reveal the driver in the appeal you made? Come back when you get a reply if you get nowhere with IKEA. I would also go here https://www.facebook.com/IKEAUK and have a right moan too,
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hexaflexagon
post Fri, 5 Jun 2015 - 22:14
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QUOTE (farmerboy @ Fri, 5 Jun 2015 - 23:10) *
Welcome to the world of private parking. You also need to get onto customer services at IKEA demanding it to be cancelled.


And in addition I'd point out to IKEA that if they're going to mark out two EV bays then they should provide two charging cables otherwise others will be caught out in the same circumstances.


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blueskier
post Sat, 6 Jun 2015 - 05:34
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Hattiesdad, welcome to the forum.
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Half_way
post Sat, 6 Jun 2015 - 08:35
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while you may not have any luck with Ikea, you may also want to try British land who appear to own the retail park and its car parks where Ikea are located
( bottom right of this website ) http://www.giltbrookretailpark.co.uk/
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gac
post Sun, 7 Jun 2015 - 14:29
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As someone waiting for the outcome of a POPLA appeal about this car park, make sure you go and get your own photos of the bays/charging facilities. ParkingEye's information is ridiculously out of date, the information pack I received from them had half the car park missing altogether and many signs in wrong places, so they don't seem to actually have any clue what's going on in the car parks they "manage". I think if you had your own photos, put up against ParkingEye's claim that will likely say there aren't any EV-only bays (due to being very outdated) then it may help prove that ParkingEye have very little interest in the proper management of the land.

It's also interesting that you spoke to the attendant, when I raised my thread on here some members seemed to believe that ParkingEye were ANPR cameras only and didn't do ticket issuing, and therefore it must have been IKEA themselves who ticketed me. Did the attendant have any kind of ParkingEye uniform, out of interest? Does anyone have a link to the YouTube video that's been mentioned?

As for the land ownership, as I understand it the land is owned by Giltbrook Retail Park Ltd, who are a subsidiary of British Land. Either Giltbrook Ltd or British Land have engaged Savills to manage the park, and either Giltbrook/British Land/Savills have engaged ParkingEye. I'm hoping that the contracts get me out of my invoice and that a mistake has been made somewhere in the chain. It would be worth you mentioning in your appeals that you don't believe ParkingEye have the correct authority.
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Hattiesdad
post Sun, 7 Jun 2015 - 15:54
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Thanks for the advice and replies!

gac - I dont think this carpark has anpr system at all, it is most definitely manned. The anpr sites are usually for car parks which are chargeable, with or without a free period, the entry and exit phots are time stamped so they know if you have overstayed etc. Giltbrook is a free carpark so they can only ticket you for parking infringements, such as what happened to us or if someone parks in a disabled space without a badge etc and therefore needs to be manned. Giltbrook have a site office located at the back of Pizza Express in a sliding window, next to a door. Guy there tracked down the operator after some bluffing, she was in what looked liked a security guard type uniform with a hi-viz vest over the top which I think said parking attendant on the back. Good luck with your appeal. Out of curiosity, what were you ticketed for?

Will update our outcome as and when we hear something.
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Skiddaw
post Sun, 7 Jun 2015 - 16:13
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Wrong one will find it.

This post has been edited by Skiddaw: Sun, 7 Jun 2015 - 16:31
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gac
post Sun, 7 Jun 2015 - 18:19
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QUOTE (Hattiesdad @ Sun, 7 Jun 2015 - 16:54) *
Thanks for the advice and replies!

gac - I dont think this carpark has anpr system at all, it is most definitely manned. The anpr sites are usually for car parks which are chargeable, with or without a free period, the entry and exit phots are time stamped so they know if you have overstayed etc. Giltbrook is a free carpark so they can only ticket you for parking infringements, such as what happened to us or if someone parks in a disabled space without a badge etc and therefore needs to be manned. Giltbrook have a site office located at the back of Pizza Express in a sliding window, next to a door. Guy there tracked down the operator after some bluffing, she was in what looked liked a security guard type uniform with a hi-viz vest over the top which I think said parking attendant on the back. Good luck with your appeal. Out of curiosity, what were you ticketed for?

Will update our outcome as and when we hear something.
An invoice can still be issued for overstaying a free car park; it's against the arbitrary T&Cs that the driver "agrees to" by parking (whether these T&Cs can actually form a contract is a subject of debate). It should be much harder to justify the extortionate charges when overstaying in a free car park as opposed to overstaying a paid ticket, but bearing in mind most people will just pay these tickets when they see "PCN" and "court action may affect credit rating" and the like, they still get issued in the hope that it'll get paid without question.

I'm aware of the site office but I appealed as the keeper so didn't have the opportunity to visit the site office on the day, I was just interested that you'd confirmed that there was an attendant (rather than it being someone from IKEA as other members believed) and curious whether they presented themselves as an employee of ParkingEye or of the physical site - sounds like the latter since there wasn't any logo'ed clothing or whatever. Which, in turn, may have an effect in future - to my mind, if ParkingEye are responsible for car park management, does a non-ParkingEye employee have the authority to decide what does/doesn't constitute a "breach"? It's a further "dilution" of whatever minimal authority exists at each level (Giltbrook Ltd appoint Savills, Savills appoint ParkingEye, ParkingEye appoint some low-tier employee of one of those two to do the actual enforcement) and at some point it should probably be deemed that it's so far removed from the actual authority that the task can't be performed properly.

As for what I was invoiced for, my car was outside of a marked bay and supposedly causing an obstruction which I dispute, being where it was wouldn't have stopped vehicular access anywhere. I appealed to ParkingEye as keeper pre-Beavis, citing that the charge wasn't a genuine pre-estimate and was an attempted penalty, plus that they didn't have authority and that I would require to see something stating that they did. I didn't receive this, so I took the POPLA code and appealed to POPLA on the same basic points. Eventually I received an information pack from ParkingEye, and responded to that with pretty much the same points again, but fleshed out with a few clauses from the BPA Code of Conduct which I didn't believe ParkingEye had followed, and examples of case law which disagreed with ParkingEye's position. Still waiting patiently for the POPLA verdict though, and think it could be a while again due to the new Beavis appeal...
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nigelbb
post Mon, 8 Jun 2015 - 09:53
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Have I missed something? Why would there be two bays for EVs but only one charging cable? Either that second bay will always be empty or the car in it will get a ticket whether it's an EV or not.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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Jlc
post Mon, 8 Jun 2015 - 09:55
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 8 Jun 2015 - 10:53) *
Have I missed something? Why would there be two bays for EVs but only one charging cable? Either that second bay will always be empty or the car in it will get a ticket whether it's an EV or not.

It's a trap... ninja.gif


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 8 Jun 2015 - 10:08
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FOr Our EVs you take your cable with you, to avoid this issue. Not seen one with a captured cable, or one supplied, as usually the charging station (technically just a supply station, it doesnt actually perform the charging your car does...) locks both ends when in use; when not in use any cable would just get stolen, I would have thought.
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hexaflexagon
post Mon, 8 Jun 2015 - 10:57
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 8 Jun 2015 - 10:53) *
Have I missed something? Why would there be two bays for EVs but only one charging cable? Either that second bay will always be empty or the car in it will get a ticket whether it's an EV or not.


Indeed Nigel, as I surmised in post #3
smile.gif
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RunDogRun
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 10:35
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I hope this explains the reason for two parking bays for one charging point.

Some EVs have the charging socket on the left of the vehicle, some on the right, and some in the front.
Fast-Charge cables at these charge points carry a very high current and are necessarily short to avoid overheating.
Therefore, position of parking is important to allow the cable to reach the socket on the car.

My Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, for example, needs to be reversed into a charging bay with the charging point on
the right rear of the car otherwise the cable simply won't reach.

Also, it is common to find someone else charging from a single charging point and, because
electric fuel is as important to EV cars as as petrol/diesel is for ICE cars (IE Must not run out), there is often
no choice for the EV driver but to wait for the charging point to become free. So there are often two bays for one point.

HTH

Steve

This post has been edited by RunDogRun: Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 10:39
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ManxRed
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 11:17
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Holy Thread Resurrection Batman!!


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Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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