Admiral and NCD Options

[typefish]

A month or two ago I reversed into a black metal fence at the dead of night (car hid source of illumination) - no damage was gained to said fence, and the home owner was okay with being informed and lack of damage, so handed over my details, got the car repaired and then informed the insurance company a week or two later - didn't want them thrusting their rather expensive repair services down my throat.

Since it's Admiral, the terms are super special. As such:

you must inform us immediately:
[...]
if you or any driver named on your policy, are involved in an accident or suffers a loss, no
matter how trivial and even if you do not wish to make a claim
[...]

...which is fair, but where I get a bit aggrieved are these bits in combination

If you (or any driver named on your policy) make a claim or a claim is made against you,
and you do not have protected or guaranteed No Claims Bonus, your No Claims Bonus will
be reduced.

This is a No Claims Bonus and not a no blame bonus. If a claim occurs which is not
your fault and we have to make a payment, your No Claims Bonus will be reduced
unless we can get back all that we paid from those responsible.
If you make a claim and your renewal premium has already been calculated, your
No Claims Bonus will be amended and your premium will change

2. Claims that don’t affect your Bonus
[...]
- claims which aren’t your fault where we have recovered all of our money
[...]

since I have "settled" the costs myself (the excess on my policy is £600 more than the cost of repairs, so even a new fence, if required, would be paid for by myself), and no other costs are involved, is this really a claim? I don't remember anybody claiming for money from Admiral! And as such, should my NCB (not risk) be affected, since Admiral's cost is only for answering the phone call?

Since I've decided to not engage in insurance fraud, I do feel rather penalised.

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[Fredd]

You have to notify them, but you're not making a claim - so your NCB shouldn't be affected, which is consistent with the snippets of your policy documents that you've posted. Of course they'll probably take your accident into account when calculating the premium come renewal time...

[typefish]

It's Admiral, they took into account the fact that two people drove into the back of me in 23 months... and charged me accordingly

[Fredd]

I know, they seem to start from the position that perfect drivers don't have any accidents or break any laws regardless of the cause, so anyone who does is a higher risk and the premium must be increased. If a meteorite hit your car they'd probably add an "unlucky bastard who parks under the sky" loading.

[andy_foster]

And as such, should my NCB (not risk) be affected, since Admiral's cost is only for answering the phone call?

Since I've decided to not engage in insurance fraud, I do feel rather penalised.

Eh? Have Admiral actually penalised you by reducing you NCB, or are you simply wasting everybody's time by asking them to guess whether or not they will breach their own contract, or are you simply hoping for a cup of tea and reassurance/sympathy?

[typefish]

They have, instead of 5+ at renewal it will be 3 years.

Got the lovely e-mail to prove it too. I was just reading the roofing thread and the penny dropped. Wasn't exactly in the best of moods when I reported it to them so it's entirely possible they said it and didn't register.

[facade]

Ask them to provide details of the claim that they paid.

You may find that the owner of the fence discovered some very expensive damage in daylight and claimed against your policy, and Admiral paid out without telling you (because you had already given the details to Admiral).

They will have already loaded your policy because of the accident, but if they didn't pay a claim then they can't reduce your NCD.


Insurance is all about statistics & risks, they have many years of data to help them assess the risks, logic doesn't apply. (You might think that after a minor bump, you would be less likely to have another because you would have learned from it, but statistically, the opposite is true, which is why they are Very Cross Indeed if they find out that you have not informed them of a bump that you sorted yourself)

This post has been edited by facade: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 - 12:05

[The Slithy Tove]

They have, instead of 5+ at renewal it will be 3 years.

In which case you must challenge them on this, and insist that, as per their own terms, your full 5+ years of NCD must still stand.

Also worth shopping around for less petty alternative insurers, but you'll still have to make sure Admiral honour your correct NCD in order that you can transfer it to another insurer.

This post has been edited by The Slithy Tove: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 - 12:08

[Barry S]

It's Admiral, they took into account the fact that two people drove into the back of me in 23 months... and charged me accordingly

They tried to do that when someone hit my car whilst it was parked, resulting in an "at fault" claim for £1500 as they drove off without leaving any details. I told them where to insert their renewal quote...and ended up insured by another part of the group for around the same price I was expecting to pay.

[Ocelot]

you must inform us immediately:
[...]
if you or any driver named on your policy, are involved in an accident or suffers a loss, no
matter how trivial and even if you do not wish to make a claim
[...]

Would they also want to know if you had a minor scrape with no other parties involved (maybe someone had scratched your bumper in a car park then driven off)?

[albert2008]

It's Admiral, they took into account the fact that two people drove into the back of me in 23 months... and charged me accordingly

that cost should be covered with the 2 whiplash payments,

[facade]

Would they also want to know if you had a minor scrape with no other parties involved (maybe someone had scratched your bumper in a car park then driven off)?

Yes,

covered by "no matter how trivial".

statistically, once you have a scrape, you are much more likely to have another, even if you are 5 miles from the car when it happened (bad luck happens in threes?), the next one may cost them £5000, so they want to know so that they can set the odds for the bet accordingly.

You are betting say £500 that more than your excess of damage happens to your car in the next 12 months, with the proviso that you can't damage it deliberately. They are accepting your bet, and if you are on the second of your run of 3 already, they are much more likely to lose, so they wouldn't have taken it at £500, possibly more like £1500.


However, some people are prepared to take the risk that they won't find out about a car park scrape, or an argument with a gatepost, and don't inform them.

This post has been edited by facade: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 - 18:49

[sgtdixie]

Mrs Dixie reversed into a metal pole stuck in the ground (don't ask) causing a dent to the rear door of the car. It cost £290 to fix. Did she tell the insurance. Not a chance. Did she realize she had to, of course she did. Strangely enough life went on.

[Aretnap]

They have, instead of 5+ at renewal it will be 3 years.

Sounds like there are three possibilities:

(1) A mistake on Admiral's part
(2) The householder has gone back, looked at the fence again, decided it was damaged and made a claim
(3) The householder hasn't actually made a claim, but Admiral are keeping the file open just in case he does. This results in the claim being marked as unresolved and your NCD being reduced until your insurer is confident that a claim isn't going to appear (normally a few months, I believe). Obviously this causes problems if your renewal comes while the case in unsettled, but if you stay with Admiral they should refund any additional premium once it is settled. If you change insurer make sure the new insurer is aware that there is still a potentially outstanding claim, and get them to confirm that they'll give you a refund when it's settles and your NCD is restored.

First step is obviously to contact Admiral and ask which it is

(the excess on my policy is £600 more than the cost of repairs, so even a new fence, if required, would be paid for by myself)

For future reference, in at least 99% of cases your excess is only payable if you claim for damage to your own car - it's not applicable to the third party section of your policy. So a claim for damage to the fence would have been paid in full, even if it was under £600.

(A very small number of rather specialist companies at the bottom end of the market do charge an excess on 3rd party claims, but Admiral is not one of them, nor AFAIK is any other household name insurer. The only one I can think of that does is XS Direct)

[Ocelot]

Would they also want to know if you had a minor scrape with no other parties involved (maybe someone had scratched your bumper in a car park then driven off)?

Yes,

covered by "no matter how trivial".

statistically, once you have a scrape, you are much more likely to have another, even if you are 5 miles from the car when it happened (bad luck happens in threes?), the next one may cost them £5000, so they want to know so that they can set the odds for the bet accordingly.

You are betting say £500 that more than your excess of damage happens to your car in the next 12 months, with the proviso that you can't damage it deliberately. They are accepting your bet, and if you are on the second of your run of 3 already, they are much more likely to lose, so they wouldn't have taken it at £500, possibly more like £1500.


However, some people are prepared to take the risk that they won't find out about a car park scrape, or an argument with a gatepost, and don't inform them.

Thanks - It's never occurred to me to tell them about every time some ****** has left a dent or a scratch on my car. I'd be constantly on the phone. What they don't know...

[fedup2]

Would they also want to know if you had a minor scrape with no other parties involved (maybe someone had scratched your bumper in a car park then driven off)?

Yes,

covered by "no matter how trivial".

statistically, once you have a scrape, you are much more likely to have another, even if you are 5 miles from the car when it happened (bad luck happens in threes?), the next one may cost them £5000, so they want to know so that they can set the odds for the bet accordingly.

You are betting say £500 that more than your excess of damage happens to your car in the next 12 months, with the proviso that you can't damage it deliberately. They are accepting your bet, and if you are on the second of your run of 3 already, they are much more likely to lose, so they wouldn't have taken it at £500, possibly more like £1500.


However, some people are prepared to take the risk that they won't find out about a car park scrape, or an argument with a gatepost, and don't inform them.

Thanks - It's never occurred to me to tell them about every time some ****** has left a dent or a scratch on my car. I'd be constantly on the phone. What they don't know...

Do you live in an exceptionally rough area or are you really bad at choosing where/how you park?

[facade]

Just proves the insurance companies are right if you ask me

Once you have an "incident" you are more likely to have another



And no, I wouldn't report the odd trolley ding or stonechip either, I view them as "fair wear & tear" for a car that is actually used which is one reason I don't have a lease car

[typefish]

Sounds like there are three possibilities:

(1) A mistake on Admiral's part
(2) The householder has gone back, looked at the fence again, decided it was damaged and made a claim
(3) The householder hasn't actually made a claim, but Admiral are keeping the file open just in case he does. This results in the claim being marked as unresolved and your NCD being reduced until your insurer is confident that a claim isn't going to appear (normally a few months, I believe). Obviously this causes problems if your renewal comes while the case in unsettled, but if you stay with Admiral they should refund any additional premium once it is settled. If you change insurer make sure the new insurer is aware that there is still a potentially outstanding claim, and get them to confirm that they'll give you a refund when it's settles and your NCD is restored.

Spoke to them earlier on, and it's a little bit from option 1, a little bit from option 3.

They've 'closed' the claim, so it's back to 5+ years NCD, yippee.

[Glitch]

When dealing with Admiral you have to accept there is a high risk of incompetence. I know from personal experience.

The Admiral Group (Admiral, Bell, Elephant, Diamond) are usually amongst the cheapest and you generally get what you pay for.

The vast majority of consumers pick their insurer on price alone and very rarely read the small print (in conjunction with the Road Traffic Act of course), look at their charges, or research the insurer they enter a contract with. Usually it's a pretty one-sided arrangement and they all use smoke and mirrors to weigh up risk and the market segment they go for.

Most people don't have accidents so never have to go though the pain of making a claim. It's the claims service you are actually paying for not just a certificate to keep you road legal.

[Ocelot]

Would they also want to know if you had a minor scrape with no other parties involved (maybe someone had scratched your bumper in a car park then driven off)?

Yes,

covered by "no matter how trivial".

statistically, once you have a scrape, you are much more likely to have another, even if you are 5 miles from the car when it happened (bad luck happens in threes?), the next one may cost them £5000, so they want to know so that they can set the odds for the bet accordingly.

You are betting say £500 that more than your excess of damage happens to your car in the next 12 months, with the proviso that you can't damage it deliberately. They are accepting your bet, and if you are on the second of your run of 3 already, they are much more likely to lose, so they wouldn't have taken it at £500, possibly more like £1500.


However, some people are prepared to take the risk that they won't find out about a car park scrape, or an argument with a gatepost, and don't inform them.

Thanks - It's never occurred to me to tell them about every time some ****** has left a dent or a scratch on my car. I'd be constantly on the phone. What they don't know...

Do you live in an exceptionally rough area or are you really bad at choosing where/how you park?

The area's fine, just that I have to park on the road and there's always someone who can't parallel park. At supermarkets I park as far away as possible, then when you come back there's usually someone who thinks there's safety in numbers and parks right next to me. Recently I parked on another street while my road was being resurfaced, and someone keyed my car, obviously thinking that they own the space of public road where I parked. I think they will think twice before doing it again...