Who can SORN a car...? |
Who can SORN a car...? |
Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 14:50
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 110 Joined: 17 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,310 |
Who can legally declare a vehicle SORN?
Options 1. RK only 2. Owner only 3. RK and owner 4. None of the above.... |
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Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 14:50
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Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 15:12
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 587 Joined: 18 Sep 2008 From: Folkestone, Kent Member No.: 22,623 |
In reality (as opposed to legally) anyone who has the V5C can do it online as long as they admit to being either the existing Registered Keeper or a new RK.
This post has been edited by Lodesman: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 15:24 |
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Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 15:34
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 110 Joined: 17 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,310 |
Thanks.....unfortunately it's the 'legally' bit that I need an answer to...lol!!!
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Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 15:42
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 22,300 |
Thanks.....unfortunately it's the 'legally' bit that I need an answer to...lol!!! It depends, the Registered Keeper is responsible for licensing or declaring SORN, but as above, anyone who has the V5C can use the details from it to declare SORN on their behalf. Or a new keeper can declare SORN using the details from the New Keeper Supplement part of the V5C when they become the new keeper. |
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Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 15:44
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 21 Apr 2016 Member No.: 83,881 |
The registered keeper is liable if a vehicle isn't taxed or on a SORN and it's their responsibility.
Turning this round to answer your question I don't think there is any particular offence for if anyone else were to SORN the vehicle. That's not to say that in certain circumstances there wouldn't be some other offences that could come into play such as fraud or harassment. A bit more info would help..... -------------------- If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
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Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 17:02
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 110 Joined: 17 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,310 |
more info....
Someone I know [A] is fighting DVLA on a SORN issue..... A was owner but wasn't RK at the time SORN was declared. Note that the RK wasn't the previous owner [ie this isn't a case of the V5 not being sent off upon purchase...that was done and it was the properly transferred one that was used to sorn it]. Van was SORNED using the v5c details. Need to find out if A was allowed to do it or not as they weren't then it may screw up their case. RK isn't available anymore to help...... Hope that helps to explain it |
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Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 17:22
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 21 Apr 2016 Member No.: 83,881 |
Ok. I can't see why they wouldn't have been allowed to.
This page suggests if it's not the RK making the declaration it has to be done by post... https://www.gov.uk/make-a-sorn -------------------- If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
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Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 18:13
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 882 Joined: 7 Nov 2004 Member No.: 1,847 |
We can all make up a scenario here but:
The RK can declare SORN as they have the number on the V5c or tax reminder to do it with. The RK is responsible for taxing the vehicle, and is the one who pays the tax (maybe the owner re-reimburses them), any refunded tax goes to the RK The RK will get the fines for allowing a SORN'd vehicle to be driven. The RK will have to supply the logbook to get an impounded vehicle out of the pound. (I don't know how the fine for unclamping has to be paid, possibly the owner/driver can do that as it includes a surety that covers the tax owed anyway, and is likely paid in cash/debit card) Now what is interesting is if the RK won't get the vehicle out and it gets crushed, presumably the owner can small claims them for the value of the vehicle? |
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Mon, 30 Jul 2018 - 18:25
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 22,300 |
more info.... Someone I know [A] is fighting DVLA on a SORN issue..... A was owner but wasn't RK at the time SORN was declared. Note that the RK wasn't the previous owner [ie this isn't a case of the V5 not being sent off upon purchase...that was done and it was the properly transferred one that was used to sorn it]. Van was SORNED using the v5c details. Need to find out if A was allowed to do it or not as they weren't then it may screw up their case. RK isn't available anymore to help...... Hope that helps to explain it It may depend on what offence the 'SORN Issue' is, and if the SORN was made before or after the transfer of Registered Keeper. |
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Tue, 31 Jul 2018 - 14:24
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 110 Joined: 17 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,310 |
A bought van years ago
Registered it to B as the RK [but A was still the owner] Wind forward 12 months B got another van and was finished using previous van A declared van SORN by post but didn't change V5 to their name.....is this allowed? Illegal?? Does it invalidate the SORN?? |
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Tue, 31 Jul 2018 - 14:48
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
As I understand it, the requirement is for the keeper to make the declaration. That’s not to say that it is an offence for someone other than the keeper to do it for them (absent and fraud) or that any notification is invalidated if not done by the keeper.
-------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Tue, 31 Jul 2018 - 14:55
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 22,300 |
A declared van SORN by post but didn't change V5 to their name.....is this allowed? Illegal?? Does it invalidate the SORN?? 'A' could declare SORN on behalf of the 'Registered Keeper', with their authority and the details from their V5C. What is the 'SORN Issue'? Some vehicle licensing matters only involve the 'Registered Keeper', some can involve 'a person'. This post has been edited by localdriver: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 - 15:17 |
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Wed, 1 Aug 2018 - 08:06
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 110 Joined: 17 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,310 |
What is the 'SORN Issue'? Some vehicle licensing matters only involve the 'Registered Keeper', some can involve 'a person'. DVLA clamped van which was on private land [but not the owners land]. Owner looking to reclaim money as van was sorned by post. DVLA dispute the sorn. Owner will obviously be stating they sorned it....so needs to be able to do that. |
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Wed, 1 Aug 2018 - 09:02
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 22,300 |
Owner looking to reclaim money as van was sorned by post. DVLA dispute the sorn. Owner will obviously be stating they sorned it....so needs to be able to do that. The owner cannot declare SORN by post with their own details - only with the Registered Keeper's details, or the new keeper if they will be the Registered Keeper. The name and address on the V890 form needs to be that of the Registered Keeper (and that box ticked), or the New Keeper with the relevant box ticked (V5C or V62) and with the V5C or V62 form if not already submitted. This post has been edited by localdriver: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 - 11:16 |
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Wed, 1 Aug 2018 - 09:39
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 882 Joined: 7 Nov 2004 Member No.: 1,847 |
The registered keeper is responsible for Tax & or SORN
The registered keeper should have chased the lack of SORN confirmation (as advised at the time SORN was declared. whether this is a legal requirement is the subject of debate, the requirement is to inform the DVLA, not to check that they have been informed) The registered keeper will get the fine for the lack of tax. Nothing to do with the owner, unless the owner is actually the keeper now, and failed to register it with DVLA, then it does become their problem.. |
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Wed, 1 Aug 2018 - 09:49
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#16
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 22,300 |
The registered keeper is responsible for Tax & or SORN Nothing to do with the owner, unless the owner is actually the keeper now, and failed to register it with DVLA, then it does become their problem.. The registered keeper is responsible for licensing matters. It is the person using or keeping an unlicensed vehicle that commits the offence - s.29 Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994. This post has been edited by localdriver: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 - 09:51 |
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Wed, 1 Aug 2018 - 10:50
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 882 Joined: 7 Nov 2004 Member No.: 1,847 |
There is a confused thread just popped up on MSE, in which someone bought a car, tried to declare SORN by post with their name & address, and the DVLA simply wrote back and said they weren't the registered keeper so they couldn't declare SORN.
The registered keeper is responsible for Tax & or SORN Nothing to do with the owner, unless the owner is actually the keeper now, and failed to register it with DVLA, then it does become their problem.. The registered keeper is responsible for licensing matters. It is the person using or keeping an unlicensed vehicle that commits the offence - s.29 Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1994. What I said. If the registered keeper is still person B then person A doesn't commit any offence unless they are caught driving it (you don't have to have the car parked at the registered keeper's address, the registered keeper is a point of contact, and a person who is responsible for the car). However if person A is actually the keeper now, but they have not registered it in their name......... |
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Fri, 3 Aug 2018 - 11:32
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 110 Joined: 17 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,310 |
Thanks
It was clamped and A paid to get it off as B [RK] was no longer around. A transferred it to their name so A is now the RK. A wants to sue for the money back as it was postal sorned....DVLA didn't get the letter etc |
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Fri, 3 Aug 2018 - 12:11
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 22,300 |
Was 'A' or 'B' the 'Registered Keeper' at the time the SORN form was sent to the DVLA?
Who's details were entered on the SORN Form? When the vehicle was unlicensed and clamped, was 'A' the 'Registered Keeper' or the 'Keeper'? This post has been edited by localdriver: Fri, 3 Aug 2018 - 12:59 |
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Fri, 3 Aug 2018 - 13:49
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 110 Joined: 17 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,310 |
Was 'A' or 'B' the 'Registered Keeper' at the time the SORN form was sent to the DVLA? Who's details were entered on the SORN Form? When the vehicle was unlicensed and clamped, was 'A' the 'Registered Keeper' or the 'Keeper'? A A K would it matter if it was A B K |
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