PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Discrepancy between limits and average speeds in South Gloucestershire.
ajuk
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 22:08
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Jan 2016
Member No.: 81,588



Even with my understanding of speed limits I was quite shocked, Heron Way and Shire Way are in the same estate and I had filed the FOI request thinking that Heron Way would have the higher average speed but I suspected at the time it wouldn't be much faster, I don't think I've ever laughed at the result of an FOI request result before. After that, I submitted some more requests and put them into this spreadsheet. It pretty much corresponds with how you would expect it to be if the findings of the US study the Effects Of Raising And Lowering Speed limits were also true here.
Unfortunately, levels of compliance weren't provided in most of the results but apparently, it was 97% on Bristol Road Frampton Cotterell, that was before they lowered it wacko.gif .

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Start new topic
Replies (20 - 26)
Advertisement
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 22:08
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
ajuk
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 19:11
Post #21


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Jan 2016
Member No.: 81,588



QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 20:26) *
It still doesn’t account for the fact that people ignore the signs.
Big ones in red circles.


Well, it is trying to explain that, that's exactly what it's trying to do rolleyes.gif , it's trying to explain what is causing people to not take a specific prohibition seriously.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 21:23
Post #22


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,726
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



QUOTE (ajuk @ Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 19:11) *
QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 20:26) *
It still doesn’t account for the fact that people ignore the signs.
Big ones in red circles.


Well, it is trying to explain that, that's exactly what it's trying to do rolleyes.gif , it's trying to explain what is causing people to not take a specific prohibition seriously.

IF they did, we would have no need of courts.
There are many prohibitions that people ignore, speeding is one of the minor ones even if common.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nigelbb
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 12:30
Post #23


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,768
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,602



QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 22:23) *
QUOTE (ajuk @ Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 19:11) *
QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 20:26) *
It still doesn’t account for the fact that people ignore the signs.
Big ones in red circles.


Well, it is trying to explain that, that's exactly what it's trying to do rolleyes.gif , it's trying to explain what is causing people to not take a specific prohibition seriously.

IF they did, we would have no need of courts.
There are many prohibitions that people ignore, speeding is one of the minor ones even if common.

It's just a lack of enforcement that encourages people to exceed the speed limit.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DancingDad
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 12:55
Post #24


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 25,726
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
From: Area 51
Member No.: 38,559



QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 12:30) *
.........It's just a lack of enforcement that encourages people to exceed the speed limit.


Other way round.
It is vastly more enforcement, via cameras mainly, that encourage people to adhere to the speed limit.
More do so now then they did 20-30 years ago. Then 35-40 in a 30 limit, you were virtually bombproof and people knew it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nigelbb
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 13:33
Post #25


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 3,768
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,602



QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 13:55) *
QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 12:30) *
.........It's just a lack of enforcement that encourages people to exceed the speed limit.


Other way round.
It is vastly more enforcement, via cameras mainly, that encourage people to adhere to the speed limit.
More do so now then they did 20-30 years ago. Then 35-40 in a 30 limit, you were virtually bombproof and people knew it.

You missed my point. Put prominent cameras on the roads where people consistently exceed the speed limit & all except the lunatic fringe will comply with the limit. Given the proliferation of CCTV in our towns & cities I can envisage a similar vast increase in smaller, cheaper speed cameras & the vast majority of drivers will obey the limit in the knowledge that the odds are on getting caught if they speed.

This post has been edited by nigelbb: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 13:34


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ajuk
post Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 22:24
Post #26


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 6 Jan 2016
Member No.: 81,588



QUOTE (nigelbb @ Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 12:30) *
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 22:23) *
QUOTE (ajuk @ Fri, 16 Nov 2018 - 19:11) *
QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Mon, 12 Nov 2018 - 20:26) *
It still doesn’t account for the fact that people ignore the signs.
Big ones in red circles.


Well, it is trying to explain that, that's exactly what it's trying to do rolleyes.gif , it's trying to explain what is causing people to not take a specific prohibition seriously.

IF they did, we would have no need of courts.
There are many prohibitions that people ignore, speeding is one of the minor ones even if common.

It's just a lack of enforcement that encourages people to exceed the speed limit.


Not really, properly set speed limit speed limits are meant to be "largely self-enforcing" which I think is the wording used in the DfT guidelines. IMO a speed limit set too low or too high is about as effective as not having posted a speed limit. You measure the speed most people drive at when conditions are good and use that as a basis for setting the speed limit. I didn't know that was how speed limits were set until about 6 years ago before then I probably would have assumed that lowering the speed limit would have a massive impact on traffic speeds, but I learnt a thing and know differently now. happy.gif

The idea behind the introduction of speed limits in 1934 was to single out of the behaviour of the small number of drivers who drive around too fast.
I fail to see how it's meant to function in that regard if you start setting the speed limit below the mean speed of traffic. As that chart show, consistently where there are higher speed limits, you just get higher compliance and not higher speed.

When you start setting the speed limit significantly below the mean average, often with 0 changes to the engineering of the road, police are reluctant to enforce it, one because people driving below the mean average are of no interest, it drives up people's contempt towards the police when such limits are enforced and it's to the detriment of police being able to target people who genuinely do drive too fast. If the average speed is too high relative to the speed limit, either the speed limit is wrong, or the design standard of the road is. How about putting more emphasis on drivers driving safely within to prevailing conditions rather than encouraging people to drive by numbers?

I think the most relevant quote from that study is this. "Arbitrary, unrealistic and nonuniform speed limits have created a socially acceptable disregard for speed limits. Unrealistic limits increase accident risks for persons who attempt to comply with limit by driving slower or faster than the majority of road users, Unreasonably low limits significantly decrease driver compliance and give road users such as a person not familiar with the road and pedestrians, a false indication of actual traffic speeds."

This post has been edited by ajuk: Sat, 17 Nov 2018 - 22:33
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_Charlie1010_*
post Sat, 24 Nov 2018 - 07:53
Post #27





Guests






Sounds like an interesting (yawn) academic exercise which does nothing to make drivers read properly.

This post has been edited by Charlie1010: Sat, 24 Nov 2018 - 07:54
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 22:11
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here