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BW Legal Letter of Claim
IrishHistory
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 16:13
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Just looking for a bit of advice if possible. My daughter has received the following from BW Legal. She has ignored all previous communication from Total Parking Solutions. In keeping with what I already know, she is the registered keeper and we do not know who was driving on the day in question. I have constructed a letter in response to defending the claim using information from this forum and legal beagles.( with pre action protocol info and request for answers to questions and also quoted PoFA, as her not being the driver )
Is that letter going to be sufficient. I can scan and attach if needs be. I also have photos of the area and signage if needs be at this stage.
Thanks in advance

This post has been edited by IrishHistory: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 17:53
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post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 16:13
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cabbyman
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 16:26
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The entries and QR codes contain identifying information that needs redacting. Also, when you repost, please turn it through 90 degrees so that it's readable.

Yes, I think we need to see your draft.


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Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 16:48
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QUOTE
I have constructed a letter in response to defending the claim using information from this forum and legal beagles.( with pre action protocol info and request for answers to questions and also quoted PoFA, as her not being the driver )
Is that letter going to be sufficient.
Yes it will be *sufficient* as a response, because nothing actually stops a BW Legal claim until court stage, where ordinary, inexperienced and some very young people put forward a decent defence and win (a life experience for her, no risk, no CCJ as long as she doesn't ignore the court deadlines and paperwork).

TPS are often cancelled by complaining in the strongest terms about customer harassment, to the Retail Park owners, or Store Manager.

If that's not been tried, why not, everyone should complain about this scam and not hide from it!

SHE SHOULD COMPLAIN NOW, THIS WEEK.

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IrishHistory
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 17:56
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Will edit the letter and repost, thanks cabbyman.
I will also ask her to go to the campus and complain. Will update. Thanks SchoolRunMum
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IrishHistory
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 08:50
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Have amended the letter of claim and will repost shortly. I have emailed.and posted the response letter with the dispute section of the info they sebtvme filled out. I figures this first letter is just an opening gambit and this will most likely result in a court date anyway so got the inportant information in and asked them for info and photos etc regarding the 'case' . I'll post both their Log and my response below.
My daughter also want to the campus and took photos...Will they be of any use here? Happy to post if necessary.
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ostell
post Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 09:46
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Did she complain to the owners of the car park? Shops etc.
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IrishHistory
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 15:27
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Just had a response to my letter ( content of which was gleaned from this and mse, legal beagles etc) from BW Legal.
I have attached it below.
She did complain at the time apparently to the uni. No dice. I have also written an email to the estates team and had a response apologising but saying TPS manage the carparks and if the gine is valid, to contact TPS and pay. They can only get involved if the fine is not valid. They also mention payment at the time would have been lower ( still £60 so totally unreasonable)
Anyway, here is the aforementioned response from BW legal. Still not signed by a person I note! Despite my asking for that in my letter to them!
Attached Image


What should we do at this stage? Any help gratefully received!
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ManxRed
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 15:34
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CPS v AJH Films was a case involving an employer and employee going about the employer's business. They cannot possibly use that to apply to a registered keeper and a.n. other person who was not driving the car for the purposes of carrying out the registered keeper's business.

And they know it.

You cannot enter into a contract to not park somewhere. its a nonsense. This is a Trespass issue, not a breach of contract issue.

And they know it.


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Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 15:43
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It isnt a fine.
Its an invoice
Maybe tell the estates team they should understand the difference.

WHo cares that its not signed? Its irrelevant. Yoru request can, and has been, ignored because you cannot compel it. Why people think they can make arbitrary requests i dont know...

WRiet back
1) I am not the driver, so *I* did not breach any terms and conditions.
2) As you admit you are not using the ONLY legislation avaialble to you to hold me, the keeper, liable - POFA2012 - I require you to state your Cause of Action agaisnt me as a defednant. Please note that your reference to CPS v AJH films has gotten even more laughable than previously - clearly not even a paralegal has written this template! - as you should be aware that 1) CPS v AJH films created no presumption and 2) it was entirey about the well established concept of employer / employee liabilty. Given that this requires proof by the claimant that such a relationshiop exists, the notion that there is a "reasonable presumption" is clearly rebutted.

You must, now, lay out your proof of the identity of the driver, and that this is the same as the keeper. As your presumption has been rebutted - and wil continue to be rebutted - furthe rreference will be unreasonable obstruction and a fauilure to comply with YOUR obligations, as officers of the court, to the overiding objectives. THis is reportable to the SRA

3) Your reference to "...pursuing you as the registered keeper of the vehicle" is, I presume, simply another error by the office tea-boy who wrote this template, because it makes absolutely no sense to say you are not using POFA and to then insert this statement.
4) No, I am not liable for your £54, and you are again misleading a consumer as to their liabiltiy.
a) CPR27.14 states you are lying
b) POFA schedule 4 states you are lying
c) CPR27.14(2)(g) willl however make your client loiable for MY costs when your letters are shown to the court.

See what others think. No rushing. Im a tad off today wink.gif
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IrishHistory
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 15:52
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Well I'm impressed with your 'a tad off thankyou
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IrishHistory
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 18:21
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Attached Image


The original letter from BW legal, with identifying info removed.

This post has been edited by IrishHistory: Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 18:22
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IrishHistory
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 18:58
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Attached Image




Will upload more pics when space frees up.

Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 
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IrishHistory
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 05:57
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Attached Image


Attached Image


First pic shows road when the car was parked.
Second shows signage ...the only sign is in the lady on the opposite side of the road. Which is confusing as there isn't a sign on the side of the road my daughters car was parked on. (I'm getting a clear pic of sent today of the signage)
Third looking up the road in opposite direction from pic one ( layby on the left in this case )
Fourth...the layby opposite the red car in pic three. The only place with a sign and looks different parking wise to the rest of the road.
Don't know if any of these help but can't hurt I figured.

This post has been edited by IrishHistory: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 05:51
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 09:27
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Dont use forum space - its too limited. Use tinypics, imgur etc.
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 12:12
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QUOTE
Still not signed by a person I note!


Solicitor letters are very often not signed by a person, that is perfectly normal.
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IrishHistory
post Sun, 21 Oct 2018 - 20:40
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 13:12) *
QUOTE
Still not signed by a person I note!


Solicitor letters are very often not signed by a person, that is perfectly normal.



Ah, ok! It was a bit on the letter template I found on either legal beagles or mse I think so I just used it as I didn't know any different.
I am going to respond to them tomorrow ...is nosferatu1001's working above OK to use? Complete novice in this! Thanks in advance!
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 21 Oct 2018 - 22:54
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Yes, use what nosferatu1001 suggested. Don't be scared of talking about the office teaboy, as it really is that bad!
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ostell
post Mon, 22 Oct 2018 - 07:03
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That sign is a good example of a forbidding sign.

The signage is of a “forbidding” nature. the signage does not offer an invitation to park on certain terms. The terms are forbidding. This means that there was never a contractual relationship. I refer you to the following case law: PCM-UK v Bull et all B4GF26K6 [2016], UKPC v Masterson B4GF26K6[2016], Horizon Parking v Mr J C5GF17X2 [2016] – In all three of these cases the signage was found to be forbidding and thus only a trespass had occurred and would be a matter for the landowner.
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IrishHistory
post Mon, 22 Oct 2018 - 14:37
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Thankyou SchoolRunMum for that.
Very interesting, ostell..Thankyou p, every bit of info is helping to make this s lot clearer.
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Red Eric 7
post Tue, 23 Oct 2018 - 23:37
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the letter i have from BW Legal mentions that i did not raise an appeal...when i did.
i went in to the car park which is a massive spacious new set-up by a huge public attraction.
i took a phone call for work purposes and then left after twenty mins or so; i never left my vehicle or even parked in a proper bay and definitely did not enjoy the environment or other public facilities. it was early one friday afternoon and the car park was empty.

any view people?
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