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letter after Gladstones LBC, Gladstoes LBC notice - how to answer
Hockey2019
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 11:47
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I hope you are in a position to offer some help or assistance , i have followed all the help and advice from your forums , and am know at the stage i believe before the court ,
I have been fighting a PCN since December 2018 - and as usual they have just gone into auto mode , but it seems know that they have started responding with a few to fight back .

Can i spot the scanned image of the reply from gladstones to you so i can get some further advice ,

Quick over view-

PCN sent through post - My mum lives in a private retirement home Churhills they have appointed UK parking , my mum's grandson dropped my mum off and because she is old and it was a wet and dull day , helped my mum to her first floor apartment made sure she was ok and then left no longer than 15-20 minutes , then he got the PCN , have now contacted the service company to ask them to sort this out as i am sure they would not like the bad press . What and how do i reply to Gladstones the information is very unclear pictures not clear but it seems that they are serious


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post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 11:47
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Jlc
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 13:28
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Yes, a claim will follow.

What happened from getting the PCN to this LBC?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Hockey2019
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 14:13
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I followed all the procedures as in most posts , appealed with original parking company with in the required date but they sent a reply saying it was outside the date , got the response from Gladstone’s so sent of the template reply asking for more info as the standard template , but they just answered with pay or further action , so this is their response to the request for more info , I did ask for a copy of the contract but as you can see they seem to get around all the relevant points , I have still not admitted who is driving so they are perusing the owner , what can I do now ?
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 18:08
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Exactly what date did you appeal on, and how? Do you have proof of appeal date?
Did the ntk comply with pofa2012 to hold the KEEPER not the owner liable? Yes or no
What other info did you ask for? You never get the contract but you can point out at court that they are unreasonable
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Hockey2019
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 18:56
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The appeal was done by letter , tried to find a copy of the letter but cannot , have an email from me to them asking them to acknowledge the appeal then got a reply also not got a copy , but sent another email after stating that thanks for acknowledging but it was outside the time allowed , can i ask them for a information disclosure ?
Also they still are requesting the admission of owner - have seen several posts that argue that because it is on private land they need to prove who was driving ?

Last question can i argue that it is not reasonable costs ?

Any help would relieve alot of pain , i have attached the response not sure if you can see their reply will try and load it so you can comment .
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Hockey2019
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 19:31
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Just checked email trail , chases up appeal on the 19th Jan , received the notice 18th December , so would have submitted with in the 28 days , they then sent letter stating appeal out of the date on the 7th March so did not follow protocol , if I ask for an information request would they have to give al correspondence ?
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Jlc
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 20:19
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QUOTE (Hockey2019 @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 18:56) *
have seen several posts that argue that because it is on private land they need to prove who was driving ?

They don't have to if they have complied with the protection of freedoms act. (They can pursue the keeper for the driver's unpaid parking charge)

QUOTE (Hockey2019 @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 18:56) *
Last question can i argue that it is not reasonable costs ?

Nope. ParkingEye v Beavis mostly put paid to that.

What does the lease say on parking? Were you in an allocated dedicated space?

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 20:20


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Hockey2019
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 23:14
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How would I know if they have complied with data act ?

How can I contest as their letter is rather vague , the pictures are not clear ?

What are you suggesting just pay it ?

Having followed the advice from the forums hope this is still hope 🙏🙏
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Hockey2019
post Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 23:52
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 20:19) *
QUOTE (Hockey2019 @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 18:56) *
have seen several posts that argue that because it is on private land they need to prove who was driving ?

They don't have to if they have complied with the protection of freedoms act. (They can pursue the keeper for the driver's unpaid parking charge)

QUOTE (Hockey2019 @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 18:56) *
Last question can i argue that it is not reasonable costs ?

Nope. ParkingEye v Beavis mostly put paid to that.

What does the lease say on parking? Were you in an allocated dedicated space?


Will check lease not sure , but car was not in an allocated space , it was parked at side not in a space , just to drop off does that help
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The Rookie
post Sat, 9 Nov 2019 - 05:10
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QUOTE (Hockey2019 @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 23:14) *
How would I know if they have complied with data act ?

What on earth are you trying to ask there?

QUOTE (Hockey2019 @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 23:14) *
How can I contest as their letter is rather vague , the pictures are not clear ?

You state why the charge isn't owed, much like you would have done in your appeal, what you received was an invoice, you either owed the money or you did not, what a subsequent letter says is of less relevance obviously.

QUOTE (Hockey2019 @ Fri, 8 Nov 2019 - 23:14) *
What are you suggesting just pay it ?

Well you either challenge this properly and start preparing to defend or pay, it's not an option to do neither. No-one recommends paying but we can't decide for you.

It's clear you aren't reading other threads to get a better understanding of how this all works, so start doing so now.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Hockey2019
post Sat, 9 Nov 2019 - 08:19
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Have been searching for the appeal letter as I know it was with in date , but it was a long time ago nearly a year , I don’t have the letter as it was an online appeal process through the CPM web link , I did chase up the appeal process with an email on the 19th jan PCN received 18 th Dec , they did not acknowledge it , but then on the 3th March did acknowledge but stated it was outside the date , can I use this as part of the dismissal of the PCN , I have 3 emails one chasing the appeal the other asking when the they think the date of the appeal was as it was not on their letter 🙏🙏🙏
Any help with this will be really helpful
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Hockey2019
post Sat, 9 Nov 2019 - 11:55
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Sorry for all the confusion , I have read many of the threads and need some advice on where to start or how to defend , advice on where to start would be much appreciated, not sure what point would be best to put forward - so if I put the order of events then maybe some one can comment and point me in the direction

Date of offence - 15th December - date received PCN - 18th December ( company CPM )
Online Appeal
Appealed on the grounds of unreasonable - mum owns flat - son stops outside not in allocated space or parking - to help mum needs assistance to flat check is ok return to car and leave - have seen in another forum that something similar had been contested and one nearly identical circumstances . Will get the case name - would like some opinions on this point if possible .
Jopson v Homeguard
not sure of exact date as no confirmation after completing their process - email to info@ukparking ..... to progress the appeal - I believe they had to acknowledge the appeal - nothing

Received an acknowledgment-3 March saying the appeal was outside the date - sent email requesting them to acknowledge when the date of the appeal was registered no date on the appeal refusal - Not sure if this can be used as the main part - the appeal was based on the unreasonable ticketing - my mum lives in the retirement home owns flat - needs assistance to get to flat this takes some one 15-20 minutes - was not parked in bay or official space - time stamp on phots is only 10 minutes .

Didn’t hear anything until letter from Gladstone’s - got letter stating they would be perusing - my mistake waited for another response .

Next response was the LBC - trawled through forums should have asked first - hindsight is a great thing - responded with the tailored request for information from one of the forums - asking for data etc .

Then this is where I am now - they have responded to my response to the LBC - some of the content uploaded on first post - this is my problem I do not know how to respond to this letter - can some one point in the direction of a thread to help or please help me with a reply

Sorry for long post but I think I probably appear to be veering all over , as I am really unsure of what to do know .

This post has been edited by Hockey2019: Sun, 10 Nov 2019 - 07:21
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 11 Nov 2019 - 08:12
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Send them a SAR, for all your personal data they hold.
This shoudl show when their systems logged the appeal.

POFA - you need to check their NtK against POFA, but if you gavce away the drivers identity then POFA2012 is of no use to you. Look up POFA2012, schedule 4, para 8 if there was a windscreen ticket (notice to driver) or para 9 if there was ONLY a Notice to Keeper sent through the post.
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Hockey2019
post Mon, 11 Nov 2019 - 09:20
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Thanks for the reply ,

Have checked the NTK - looks like they have complied so this one is a no go , The SAR request reference the appeal do i send that to Gladstones or UK parking ?
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 11 Nov 2019 - 12:42
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UK Parking, they hold the data on you.

Hvae you gone through STRICTLY checking line by line? They have mentioned the PERIOD of PARKING yes, and not the time driving between two cameras?
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Hockey2019
post Mon, 11 Nov 2019 - 15:12
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 11 Nov 2019 - 12:42) *
UK Parking, they hold the data on you.

Hvae you gone through STRICTLY checking line by line? They have mentioned the PERIOD of PARKING yes, and not the time driving between two cameras?


The PCN is for no permit on private land , so no time between cameras - the wording on the PCN is for location time and no PERMiT - exact wording

The reason we issued the PCN to the vehicle is as follows : NO Permit



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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 11 Nov 2019 - 16:35
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So, does the NtK Specify the period of parking? Yes or No

Given it is one of the conditions of POFA...
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Hockey2019
post Mon, 11 Nov 2019 - 16:41
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Thanks to all helping with this , below is what i intend to put in the reply form under he section of disputing the debt and comments before i send back to Gladstones


PCN 2215029

I dispute the dept on several points .
1./ Communication has taken part between UK carpark management Limited, a dispute was logged with in the companies time frame of 28 days .
2./ Incorrect signage – ( Signage on entrance – owners parking only ) no mention of permit
3./ The aerial view off the premise showing signage location is incorrect – it is also of the building during construction so does not even show the car park or markings .
4./ Parking Control management – private property COURT
We will also use these as part of the reason for disputing the dept

Jopson for loading/unloading not parking
http://nebula.wsimg.com/f6d657adf7df...&alloworigin=1

(Forbidding signage....)
http://nebula.wsimg.com/b84a6ffd1e35...&alloworigin=1
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Hockey2019
post Tue, 12 Nov 2019 - 09:11
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 11 Nov 2019 - 16:35) *
So, does the NtK Specify the period of parking? Yes or No

Given it is one of the conditions of POFA...

No period of parking - PCN is for no permit
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 12 Nov 2019 - 14:58
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Yes, I gett that

So, how does it meet POFA2012, schedule 4, para 9, when one of the REQUIREMENTS is to show such a period on the NtK? The obvious answer is... it doesnt.

I dont understand your bullet points, and what relevance they have to a reply. You need to use fully formed sentences that can be read and understood by the person at gladsotnes who doesnt have a clue whats going on.
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