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Private parking notice, Letter of claim
Tazmaina69
post Sat, 18 Feb 2017 - 12:30
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Hi all this is my first post and hope to get some advice from some on this but also at the same time share my journey of the Parking Charge Notice (PCN). Have received from Napier parking a letter Notice to keeper regarding a fixed charge notice, but the time and date of issue I was at work so could not have possibly been there (have evidence). I phoned Napier but they where not intrested and just demand that I pay up & saying that someone else must have used my car etc. No one has used my car to my knowledge ( I live in a shared house) so can not give them a name as nobody admit to using it (they all have their own cars) but again explained all this but to my surprise still not interested.
So thats a bit of background so decided to ignore all letters until received one from bwlegal letter of claim, to pay up to prevent legal action I have previously ignored everything from them but should I know start taking things more seriously?
I understand that the law has changed and read that they do take people to court but feel that if I contacted them and provide evidence they will still just demand payment as that is all they are interested in so should I just wait till the official court papers come through or start up communications with bwlegal.
Some advice on how to handle this would be much appreciated.
Carl happy.gif
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post Sat, 18 Feb 2017 - 12:30
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 20 Feb 2017 - 13:48
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Of course they are allowed to use a tracing agent

Good grief, its something we recommend they do otherwise the first you know about court is the CCJ appearing when you apply for a mortgage.
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Tazmaina69
post Mon, 20 Feb 2017 - 14:25
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Thanks nosferatu1001 for clearing that up for me it makes sense when putting it like that, but just trying to get some information ready for my defence when I receive the court papers as it seems they are going down this way, some people on here who have a lot better understanding that bwlegal tend to mess it up and the CCJ gets stuck off (or whatever they do) due to their incompetent handling, long as I do my bit and reply on time etc.

I was at work On-Call and can provide 100% proof, can not name the driver as nobody else has permission to use my car but if someone did its without my consent if they could have so not going to own up if they did.

Do the parking attendant take a picture of the tickets placed on the car and if so how long would they keep it for, how would I go about getting that information without making the matter more complex?

I know asking a lot of questions from people on this site ( and probably more when it goes to court) as they have a far better understanding of the process than I do and if I get it wrong could end up costing me or worst case a CCJ on my records. icon_hang.gif

Its all very much appreciated.. biggrin.gif

Carl
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 20 Feb 2017 - 14:59
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Until they win a court case, you dont pay within 1 month, there is no CCJ
The clue is the "J" in the name - JUDGEMENT. There has to be a court case first

What youre likely thinking of is a Set Aside applicaiton, This is where you find out about the court case after the fact, and apply to the courts to set aside the judgment and have the hearing afresh

IF you lose and IF you dont pay within 1 month - THAT IS WHEN YOUGET A CCJ!
They dont magically just appear....
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Tazmaina69
post Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 10:35
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Hi everyone

Thanks for all your replies so far its helps a lot to understand how the process works, so have decided to reply to bwlegal letter of claim via email to request information of the alleged contravention, as from reading on this forum ignore does not go in your favour at this stage if they do take it to court (probably will by the amount they are putting through).
If ok will continue to use the good advice on this forum beforehand any action taken to reply to bwlegal/Napier Parking or any court papers to make sure that do the best I can in my defence.
Will post a copy of my reply to the letter of claim in the next post before I send it for advice.

Carl
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Tazmaina69
post Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 10:46
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This is a copy of my email to bwlegal & Napier which I have not sent yet.


Ref NAP/T0215677

Dear Sir/Madam

I am received a letter from you dated 14 Feb 2017 regarding a contravention of parking on the 6th September 2016 in which you are holding me lible as the registered keeper.
I am replying to this as at the time and date you stated that the alleged contravention took place was at work and can provide robust evidence of this if required to yourself or as my defence if you wish to proceed to court action.
Further this, nobody else has permission to use my car and is used in conjunction with my employment (also can provided evidence) and find it hard to understand if was used how, so I request that you please provide evidence that my vehicle was alleged to be in breach of this contravention on this date and time.
Also my I bring to your attention that the guidelines under the independent parking committee code of practice have not been found and will also be used in conjunction with my defence, and again have evidence.
I can bring to your attention that also have contacted Napier Parking on the 5th of January at 1520 hours and asked for evidence of the alleged contravention and to date have not received any confirmation and during the conversation with them just demand payment.
I await your response to my request and provide evidence to the contravention.

Regards


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John Foxe
post Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 10:46
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Whilst bowing to the excellent knowledge of SchoolRunMum in matters parking, I am baffled at the assertion that POFA keep liability can not be defeated by evidence that the car was not in the car park as claimed by the parking company.

Sure, keeper liability can be used to transfer responsibility to the keeper when the driver is not known but this cannot be the case if the car in question was elsewhere! No doubt the OP can bolster his assertion that neither he nor the car was there by a witness statement from his employer that he was on call and had to have access to his car.

No doubt SRM will enlighten us.
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Fed Up With Scam...
post Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 18:28
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Others with more expertise than I have can reply on content. Do you mind if I help with the typos/spelling/grammar errors? Just trying to help. Best of luck to you.

QUOTE (Tazmaina69 @ Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 10:46) *
This is a copy of my email to bwlegal & Napier which I have not sent yet.

Ref NAP/T0215677

Dear Sir/Madam

I am received a letter from you dated 14 Feb 2017 regarding a contravention of parking on the 6th September 2016 in which you are holding me lible as the registered keeper.

Correction: I have received a letter from you dated 14 Feb 2017 regarding a contravention of parking on the 6th September 2016 in which you are holding me liable as the registered keeper.

I am replying to this as at the time and date you stated that the alleged contravention took place was at work and can provide robust evidence of this if required to yourself or as my defence if you wish to proceed to court action.

Correction: I am replying to this as at the time and date you stated that the alleged contravention took place I was at work and can provide robust evidence of this if required to yourselves or as my defence, if you wish to proceed to court action.

Further this, nobody else has permission to use my car and is used in conjunction with my employment (also can provided evidence) and find it hard to understand if was used how, so I request that you please provide evidence that my vehicle was alleged to be in breach of this contravention on this date and time.

Correction: Further to this, nobody else has permission to use my car and it is used in conjunction with my employment (I can provide evidence) and I find it hard to understand if it was used and how, so I request that you please provide evidence that my vehicle was alleged to be in breach of this contravention on this date and time.

Also my I bring to your attention that the guidelines under the independent parking committee code of practice have not been found and will also be used in conjunction with my defence, and again have evidence.

Correction: Also may I bring to your attention that the guidelines under the independent parking committee code of practice have not been found and will also be used in conjunction with my defence, and again I have evidence.


I can bring to your attention that also have contacted Napier Parking on the 5th of January at 1520 hours and asked for evidence of the alleged contravention and to date have not received any confirmation and during the conversation with them just demand payment.
I await your response to my request and provide evidence to the contravention.

Correction: I can bring to your attention that I have also contacted Napier Parking on the 5th of January at 15:20 hours and asked for evidence of the alleged contravention. To date I have not received any confirmation. During the conversation with them they just demanded payment.

I await your response to my request and provide evidence to the contravention.

Regards

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Tazmaina69
post Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 20:41
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I don't have any objections to anybody who can correct & change grammar etc its what I am no the forum for, and as I have dyslexia its much appreciated. biggrin.gif
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Tazmaina69
post Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 21:38
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Just like to refresh to get any last bits of advice before I send off my email tomorrow, and ask what are the chances of them going to court if I provided them with everdance was at work for a emergency services ? But I have absolutely no problem doing so if they want to.

Carl
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Fed Up With Scam...
post Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 22:13
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Good stuff, Tazmaina69. I wondered if you were dyslexic or perhaps someone whose first language isn't English.

I'm always happy to help out with that sort of thing. At the moment it's about all I can offer, as I am learning the ropes re contesting these Parking Cowboys. My case is due in court in about a month or so. Good luck with yours. I'll watch the chat on here for hints and clues.

QUOTE (Tazmaina69 @ Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 20:41) *
I don't have any objections to anybody who can correct & change grammar etc its what I am no the forum for, and as I have dyslexia its much appreciated. biggrin.gif

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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 22:57
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I would make it far shorter

The more you write, the more wiggle room there is

To...
I am the registered keeper of x vehicle

On x date and y time the vehicle was parked at my work located at z and no one else had access. I am therefore at a loss as to why you have contacted me.

I suggest you recheck your records as you may have a misread, or the vehicle has been cloned. If you still insist this is my vehicle I require timed and dated photographs clearly showing the vehicle x parked within the boundary of caroark at... so I am able to inform the police of a cloned vehicle.
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Tazmaina69
post Thu, 23 Feb 2017 - 11:35
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Hi noferatu1001

Thanks for the advice it makes sense to provide them with the least amount of information and for them to provide me with the everdance, will send it today and wait for their reply and will most definitely be back with a update.
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Tazmaina69
post Thu, 23 Feb 2017 - 19:57
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Reply sent to bwlegal and got a standard text reply-:

Quote
We make no commitment to response times on this general email account. Therefore, if you consider your matter is urgent, or should you wish to discuss your account with one of our representatives today, you can call our offices on 0113 323 4499 and we will be happy to help.

So on my Letter Of Claim have until the 4th March to pay them £155 and if not received or call them to discuss this matter with one of our helpful team and can set upan affordable payment arrangement and as previously brought to your attention if not received in the event County Court proceedings are issued the cost are estimated to be the following £233.24.

So basically how long should I give them to reply? I do now know that have to keep a log of any communication with them to show when they issue County Court proceedings shows that I have tried to resolve this.

Carl
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 23 Feb 2017 - 20:10
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QUOTE (John Foxe @ Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 11:46) *
Whilst bowing to the excellent knowledge of SchoolRunMum in matters parking, I am baffled at the assertion that POFA keep liability can not be defeated by evidence that the car was not in the car park as claimed by the parking company.


Fair point but that wasn't my assertion. The OP was not proposing to say the car was not in the car park in the post I replied to, they were proposing in the post I read, to prove that the keeper as an individual person was at work (which does nothing to assert where the car was, not in itself).




QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 22 Feb 2017 - 23:57) *
I would make it far shorter

The more you write, the more wiggle room there is

To...
I am the registered keeper of x vehicle

On x date and y time the vehicle was parked at my work located at z and no one else had access. I am therefore at a loss as to why you have contacted me.

I suggest you recheck your records as you may have a misread, or the vehicle has been cloned. If you still insist this is my vehicle I require timed and dated photographs clearly showing the vehicle x parked within the boundary of car park at... so I am able to inform the police of a cloned vehicle.


That is good - surely the suggestion is a misread or cloned numberplate, so that's what must be said, clearly.

QUOTE (Tazmaina69 @ Thu, 23 Feb 2017 - 12:35) *
Hi noferatu1001

Thanks for the advice it makes sense to provide them with the least amount of information and for them to provide me with the everdance, will send it today and wait for their reply and will most definitely be back with a update.


Good!

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Thu, 23 Feb 2017 - 20:09
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Tazmaina69
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 12:39
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Hi all
Just to update, have had a reply back from the DVLA today and Napier Parking requested the keepers details electronically on the 6.10.2016, the date of the alleged Contravention 06.09.2016.
The first letter that I received from them dated 16.12.2016 at my new address as all others must have gone to my old address and have no access to.
What I can't understand is that how they knew my new address all of a sudden taking into account no one has told them and no other requests were made to the DVLA as had updated my V5C to my new address
I have not received any replies to my email from either Napier or bwlegal to my request for information( 1 week ago) and proof that it was my car, so taking that they say on the letter of claim (date 14.02.17) I have until the 04.03.17 to pay the balance £155 to prevent legal action from being taken, are they just holding out to see if I cave in and just pay up, but why should I when was at work On-Call for a emergency services at the time, no one has or to my knowledge permission to use my car (and use it to respond when needed so wouldn't have given permission).
Just after some additional advice to my next course of action to take please and the possibility if did go to court that I have done what I can to resolve this matter and shows the court that they are unwilling to enter into communication will go in my favour I hope

Carl
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SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 13:10
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QUOTE
What I can't understand is that how they knew my new address all of a sudden

They probably used a tracing agent. Some PPCs do, after silence from a victim.

QUOTE
I have until the 04.03.17 to pay the balance £155 to prevent legal action from being taken, are they just holding out to see if I cave in and just pay up

Yes, that's what they want. Don't be that victim. However, a word of caution, whilst BW Legal muck up cases, sometimes Napier send their owner to court and he might well win...
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Tazmaina69
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 13:42
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Hi
It was mentioned on here that some do ue a tracing company and this is a good idea as its to late when you find out you have a CCJ, but take into account that the first I knew of this was on the 16.12.16 there is alot of missing letters beforehand that never received not to mention that never went to the car park in the first place so won't have been issued a ticket.
Should I send them a follow up email, letter or phone them? keeping a record of all the correspondences to see if they do have proof without doubt it was my car because I have proof was at work and can provide witnesses to say also use my car in-connection with my duties.
Sorry keep asking all these questions but not going to go down without a fight and not going to be bullied into payment as thats all they are interested in.

Carl
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Tazmaina69
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 15:28
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Back again....

Going over some information and have found something and was wondering if anyone who has more knowledge on this.

Under the POFA it states that the creditor or its agent must have made application to the DVLA for your name and address
NOT EARLIER than 28 days after the vehicle was parked.
So the elleged contravention 06.09.16 date of request from DVLA 29.09.16 which is only 23 days so they have requested it 5 days to early to the 28 allows if that is correct or am I wrong.

Thanks
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cabbyman
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 15:37
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Your post earlier today, post #35, said details were requested 6/10. Can you clarify, please?


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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Tazmaina69
post Tue, 28 Feb 2017 - 15:52
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Sorry its my mistake tongue.gif it was requested by Napier on the 06.10.16 the other date was for using my car in conjunction with my employment

Sorry again thought had them biggrin.gif back to the beginning.
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