Hi.

I used to be an active member here some time ago back in the days when the default advice for PPC tickets was always "Ignore". I understand that things have changed a bit since then, and the advice is often to appeal (POPLA) now, if the PPC is known to take things further, and in general to cost them time/money.

I have a postal CCTV ticket from Horizon for parking in Sainsbury's over the time limit. The car was parked there for 1hr 30, when the limit is 1hr for non-customers and 2hrs for customers. The driver was shopping there but has no proof of that.

I would much prefer to ignore this, as
a) I haven't really got the time for this at the moment (even if it is relatively quick)
and
b) If i were to get a bogus loss at POPLA it could create a precedent at small claims (i would not be paying even if i did lose at POPLA)

I would like to know if Horizon have any history of taking things to small claims, or if i can ignore. I appreciate the advice of always appealing just to cause them hassle, but would really prefer to avoid that if possible.

Thanks.

Here's details of Horizon

Remove any indication of who was driving, reading of previous threads should have told you that.

How do they distinguish between customers and non customers? Have you been back to Sainsburys and complained to the manager. Have you got bank statements to show the transactions?

Ignore is not really an option, they make use of the Protections of Freedoms Act to hold the keeper liable. No windscreen ticket then you need paragrpah 9.

You appeal to Horizon first and when they reject they give you an access code for POPLA.

Photos of the NTK and signs would help.

Huh?

No, you don't have to appeal; you can a) pay, or, b) ignore and wait for the normal process eventually ending up with a CCJ and bailiffs calling.

A loss at POPLA will give them a much stronger hand in court if you decide against paying at that stage.

However, a simple initial appeal to Horizon will elicit a refusal and a POPLA code. A full blown appeal to POPLA, of which there are many examples on the forum, will almost certainly bring a win. In the unlikely event that it doesn't, your liability at that point is still capped at the non-discounted rate.

It doesn't take too much time once you start to concentrate on the process.

Have a look at my threads against CEL, ECP and Met. They are all fairly similar and will give you a good grounding without much further work required.

Post drafts here before you send them.

This thread shows why not to ignore:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5643284

Why do you think a registered keeper is likely to lose at POPLA, dave-o?

We win almost every time and a Horizon one can be easy. I don't think they use the POFA in their NTKs they post out and/or send them too late.

So Horizon DO have a history of small claims do they? That is essentially what i am asking, not whether POPLA is recommended in general.



Yes, that's one of the points i was making.



Thanks, that's extremely useful, especially the tally of claims.

You still haven't edited your post that inferred who was driving. Please do this before the opportunity is lost. The PPCs do print out forums to use in court and knowing the identity of the driver makes it more difficult to defend.

Have you bothered to go into the store to complain to management?

How do the PPC know if you were or weren't a customer, ie 1 or 2 hours.

Original post - sorry if i'm being dim, but there doesn't appear to be an "edit" button any more. Has this gone, or am i just missing it?

Complain - as part of my informal 'appeal' i stated that if it was refused i would be complaining to the store management, stating that i would be stopping shopping there unless they took action. I will be doing this.

1/2 hours - drivers are supposed to get their registration validated at the checkout if staying for longer than 1 hour. In the two years that the driver has been shopping there, they have never done this and have never got one of these postal scam letters as a result. The driver has never witnessed anyone asking for validation at the checkout.


Anyway, they have refused me (surprise surprise) so i will be complaining and going to POPLA. I would guess the good folk of Pepipoo would need to see:

PCNN (with identifying info removed)
Informal "appeal" and reply text.

Anything else?

Many thanks to all.

The EDIT button would still have been there when we first gave the advice 2 weeks ago.

I do hope you didn't write what you are inferring, given that you were advised to post drafts here before sending.

You are progressing down the road of snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory at this rate.

What would you suggest as the best way to move forward then? Start a new thread?

How would that help, this thread will still exist, you could try clicking the report button against the first post and ask a mod if they can edit for you.

In future, timely responses woudl help
For now, click report.

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 11:05

Done, awaiting the kind help of a mod.

I am assuming, though, that there are more routes of defence than just something relating to who was driving?

Also, i may as well get on with preparing docs. Anything necessary other than the things i mentioned previously?

Thanks

This post has been edited by dave-o: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 16:08

Horizon are a doddle. Have you read the MSE forum newbies thread? Tons of advice there.