PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

503 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 

dave-o
Posted on: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 16:07


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


Done, awaiting the kind help of a mod.

I am assuming, though, that there are more routes of defence than just something relating to who was driving?

Also, i may as well get on with preparing docs. Anything necessary other than the things i mentioned previously?

Thanks
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1315259 · Replies: 13 · Views: 949

dave-o
Posted on: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 09:17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


What would you suggest as the best way to move forward then? Start a new thread?
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1315115 · Replies: 13 · Views: 949

dave-o
Posted on: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 - 15:53


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


QUOTE (ostell @ Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 11:49) *
You still haven't edited your post that inferred who was driving. Please do this before the opportunity is lost. The PPCs do print out forums to use in court and knowing the identity of the driver makes it more difficult to defend.

Have you bothered to go into the store to complain to management?

How do the PPC know if you were or weren't a customer, ie 1 or 2 hours.


Original post - sorry if i'm being dim, but there doesn't appear to be an "edit" button any more. Has this gone, or am i just missing it?

Complain - as part of my informal 'appeal' i stated that if it was refused i would be complaining to the store management, stating that i would be stopping shopping there unless they took action. I will be doing this.

1/2 hours - drivers are supposed to get their registration validated at the checkout if staying for longer than 1 hour. In the two years that the driver has been shopping there, they have never done this and have never got one of these postal scam letters as a result. The driver has never witnessed anyone asking for validation at the checkout.


Anyway, they have refused me (surprise surprise) so i will be complaining and going to POPLA. I would guess the good folk of Pepipoo would need to see:

PCNN (with identifying info removed)
Informal "appeal" and reply text.

Anything else?

Many thanks to all.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1314544 · Replies: 13 · Views: 949

dave-o
Posted on: Wed, 30 Aug 2017 - 10:23


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


QUOTE (cabbyman @ Sat, 26 Aug 2017 - 20:11) *
No, you don't have to appeal; you can a) pay, or, b) ignore and wait for the normal process eventually ending up with a CCJ and bailiffs calling.


So Horizon DO have a history of small claims do they? That is essentially what i am asking, not whether POPLA is recommended in general.

QUOTE (cabbyman @ Sat, 26 Aug 2017 - 20:11) *
A loss at POPLA will give them a much stronger hand in court if you decide against paying at that stage.


Yes, that's one of the points i was making.

QUOTE (ostell @ Sat, 26 Aug 2017 - 15:23) *


Thanks, that's extremely useful, especially the tally of claims.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1312143 · Replies: 13 · Views: 949

dave-o
Posted on: Sat, 26 Aug 2017 - 14:09


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


Hi.

I used to be an active member here some time ago back in the days when the default advice for PPC tickets was always "Ignore". I understand that things have changed a bit since then, and the advice is often to appeal (POPLA) now, if the PPC is known to take things further, and in general to cost them time/money.

I have a postal CCTV ticket from Horizon for parking in Sainsbury's over the time limit. The car was parked there for 1hr 30, when the limit is 1hr for non-customers and 2hrs for customers. The driver was shopping there but has no proof of that.

I would much prefer to ignore this, as
a) I haven't really got the time for this at the moment (even if it is relatively quick)
and
b) If i were to get a bogus loss at POPLA it could create a precedent at small claims (i would not be paying even if i did lose at POPLA)

I would like to know if Horizon have any history of taking things to small claims, or if i can ignore. I appreciate the advice of always appealing just to cause them hassle, but would really prefer to avoid that if possible.

Thanks.
  Forum: Private Parking Tickets & Clamping · Post Preview: #1311353 · Replies: 13 · Views: 949

dave-o
Posted on: Fri, 27 Jan 2017 - 16:30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


Crikey, an actual apology from LBHF?!

QUOTE
Thank you for writing to us about the above Penalty Charge Notice (PCN). After carefully considering your case we have decided to cancel this PCN. I have noted your comments that the signage in place advised drivers to use the Bus Lane. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused as a result of receiving this PCN.


I wonder if the FOI office warned them that I had made a request that would stitch them up if they tried it on any further.

I do feel quite angry actually, and had intended to try and get something in a local paper about them CCTV ticketing a bus lane while it has "use bus lane" signage. The second part of my FOI (comparing PCN amounts with the same day last year) showed a slightly lower amount on that day though, which seemed to detract from my point. I am still tempted to take it further though, it is disgraceful behaviour and i bet plenty of people didn't bother to challenge.

Thanks for the help folks.


*EDIT* I've just been thinking about the wording "I have noted your comments that the signage in place advised drivers to use the Bus Lane." rather than "I accept your comments that the signage in place advised drivers to use the Bus Lane.". Superb arse-covering, sir. When i have a moment i think i will write to the papers, MP etc. It would be a shame to waste a perfectly good FOI response.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1253313 · Replies: 14 · Views: 1,948

dave-o
Posted on: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 11:23


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


I think i missed Hippocrates' reply so sorry if i have overlooked anything valuable.

Anyway i have a rather useful FOI reply:
QUOTE
A traffic order was in place to use the bus lane from outside the old BBC TV Centre to the
bus stop opposite White City tube station for the northbound traffic. Clear signage was
deployed to advise motorists to use the bus lane up where the works ended.


LBHF haven't replied to my rep yet but if they do try to tough it out then it seems I have some powerful ammunition.

It's outrageous that they are still camera ticketing for bus lanes when signage like this is present. I am wondering whether the local papers would be interested in it.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1246976 · Replies: 14 · Views: 1,948

dave-o
Posted on: Thu, 8 Dec 2016 - 20:30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


I have viewed the video. The signage isn't visible, so i will be hoping the FOI request does have a record of it. However, it is clear a number of other vehicles are using the lane.

I will get a challenge in right now, as i believe i'm on my last day.

Re the TMO, is this something i submit another FOI for, or include with the challenge?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1238537 · Replies: 14 · Views: 1,948

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 6 Dec 2016 - 20:56


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


I'm trying to get hold of the video but the online system seems to be messing me around. I'll give them another 24 hours and then call them to demand a copy. I would assume that they've purposefully filmed it without the sign, but we'll see. The photos on the PCN are very dark so i wouldn't be surprised if the video's not much use.

The signs are no longer there so i can't snap them.

I'll post back as soon as i've got the video.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1237826 · Replies: 14 · Views: 1,948

dave-o
Posted on: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 - 16:44


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


The charming folk at Hammersmith and Fulham council have decided to put out temporary signage stating "USE BUS LANE" and then snap anyone using the bus lane. My trusting wife assumed that they wouldn't be so underhanded and as such has ended up with a PCN.

Firstly the PCN:





Sorry for the blurriness of the rear of the PCN, but it should be just about legible.


So far i have submitted a FOI to the council requesting details of the temporary signage at the location, particularly the "USE BUS LANE" sign that was there. I have also requested details of the amount of bus lane PCNs taken by that camera on that day, as well as the same day last year, for comparison.

I would appreciate help from the good people of Pepipoo on two main issues at this point:

1) I imagine this scenario has come up before. Do councils usually dig their feet in all the way to PATAS or are they likely to accept the informal appeal if they know there was temporary signage present?

2) Anything wrong with the wording on the PCN? The timescale statements on the back look a bit iffy to me but i admit i am a bit rusty on this these days.

Thanks
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1236656 · Replies: 14 · Views: 1,948

dave-o
Posted on: Wed, 6 May 2015 - 12:34


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


Does anyone know if it's ever possible to view videos online or get a copy mailed?

Thanks
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1073465 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 - 10:56


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


So would I be looking at:

a) This is in practice a continuous contravention, continued from PCN1, which is being addressed separately
b) Being charged for two different contraventions at the same time implies either duplicity or error, with the NOR also confirming this to be the case by stating that the second contravention would have happened a few minutes later, rather than at the same time
c) The gate/sign layout makes it impossible not to contravene the second bus gate, and considering the video and stills there is clearly no actual intent or practical benefit gained in contravening either
d) The two signs being different (left/right signs at gate) - one says "local" on the bus, the other does not, please see here (http://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.591658,-0.329942,60.42h,-4.66p,1z) - or shall I drop this one? They didn't mention it on the NOR.


Having gone back and followed the route on foot, I have decided I am going to fight it as it's absolutely ludicrous. £65/130 for this mistake is ridiculous enough, but trying to "double dip" us for it is maddening. I bet this area has made a fortune for them.

Also, going back to Hippocrates' point earlier, if it is a single video this supports the continuous contravention argument. How would I get a copy of the video? I'd prefer not to have to go in person and would prefer to be able to keep a copy.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1071827 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 28 Apr 2015 - 20:47


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


Thanks for that, Mick. It seems that the adjudicator allowed that because one had already been paid. I'm not sure there's any suggestion that he would have upheld appeals against both of them.

Given that they still have not responded about the second one (even though i submitted them on the same day), i am tempted to pay this one at the reduced rate while i still have that option (until Friday). If they do get around to rejecting the second appeal then i would take it to PATAS citing the ruling above as well as any other points i have.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1071308 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 - 16:12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Mon, 27 Apr 2015 - 15:36) *
"a few minutes later" doesn't sound like they have understood your grounds or have responded to them properly.





This is definitely a point I will make if I do risk it. I seem to remember there being a requirement that they properly address all appeal points - is that right, and if so, where is this requirement made?

Thanks

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1070864 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 - 15:11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Mon, 27 Apr 2015 - 14:59) *
Regardless of the photos; what you were presented with were 2 PCNs for different contraventions at exactly the same time. If we liken them to a criminal charges it would be a ludicrous situation because you cannot be in two places at the same time.


What bothers me about this argument is; a more precise analogy would be if I were snapped by two different speed cameras within the same minute. Would I not be liable for both?




I am an old hand, but I have not needed to fight any of my own PCNs for a few years, and have not had the spare time to spend on this forum helping others like I used to, so I am a bit rusty. Last time I did fight one, what I thought was a sure fire winner (it would have been some years ago) was refused at PATAS. So I am a bit wary now.




I would be much more confident if there was a solid procedural impropriety as well, on the subject of which:

QUOTE
2) CC timescale: "If, after 28 days...", "14 days....", "the 14 days".... from when?


Or is this allowable as they have stated "from the date this letter is served" in previous paragraphs?

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1070823 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 - 12:21


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


Would appreciate some opinions on this as I have been offered the discounted sum for a limited time.
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1070743 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 - 11:16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


I have received the NOR for the 33H PCN. I challenged this on:

- Duplicity

- Insufficient prior signage/warning

Here it is:




















































So initial reactions are:

1) Duplicity: "It was then seen driving away from the leisure centre a few minutes later..." OK, but the 2nd PCN is from the same minute, not a few minutes later. On this subject though, since the PCNs are for different contraventions (33H / 33I) does this actually matter?

2) CC timescale: "If, after 28 days..." from when?




Thanks


  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1069169 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 - 17:09


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


Thanks, I have appealed the first one on duplicity and inadequate signage meaning that there is no safe way to avoid a contravention. I have appealed the second one on duplicity and conflicting signage.

I have a bad feeling that this is going to cost £260, but perhaps I am being overly negative.

Perhaps I am scraping the bottom of the barrel, but could the email confirmation of appeal be used in an appeal:

QUOTE
Thank you for submitting your Penalty Charge Notice to Harrow Council (Ref: HR********). We will consider your representations and any supporting evidence, and serve a notice on you of our decision, within the period of 56 days.


What period of 56 days?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1061056 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 - 15:56


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


Another thing - it always used to be the case that the appeal grounds had to include e.g. "Something else not covered here". Neither the PCN nor the online appeals process allows for this. Perhaps this is different now?




Also - where's the "procedural impropriety" ground? It seems that's what would apply here...

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1061033 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 - 15:40


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 24 Mar 2015 - 15:20) *
Yes to both. As differing contraventions in differing places, how at same time ? To use a ridiculous analogy, a perfect defence on a speeding charge is to be caught on a speed camera 10 miles away at the same time, one or the other must be wrong.


To play devil's advocate, they are not at the same time, they are within the same minute.

The speeding charge analogy isn't really the same as in reality we are talking 10 metres apart and an unspecified but undeniable number of seconds later.




Don't get me wrong - I want this to work, I'm just keen to anticipate their reply and to be sure that I am right about it...

Are there any citable appeals? Surprisingly, google searches for things like "two pcns in one minute" only bring up this thread and others where the PCNs are for the same contravention but more than one minute apart. Which is not the same thing at all. This is (in theory) two genuinely different contraventions that take place within the same minute.

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1061029 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 - 13:58


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


Thanks DD. Just to be clear:

a) You do see that the PCNs have different numbers, and different contravention codes, and that they are for separate contraventions, i.e. the driver left the zone the first one was for and entered another? You still think we have a case in this?

b) I think you're suggesting that if Harrow make a mistake, or are dishonest in their rejection then we will be in a much stronger position, right?




Thanks

  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1061017 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 - 11:45


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


Mick - I'm used to challenging on transport legislation rather than human rights. I agree it's unfair but is it really going to be upheld at PATAS? They will say they are two separate contraventions as the zone was exited and entered again.


INH - I'm not sure what you're saying. Does one sign cancelling out the other help an appeal?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1060987 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 - 10:49


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


For the second one, the two signs are different in that one has "local" and one does not:



It seems minor but sometimes minor points can be major. Any leverage here?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1060964 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 - 10:33


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


Last day today. Do we challenge or not? As much as I would resent paying £130, £260 would hurt more...

Would really appreciate some specific replies ASAP so that I can get an appeal in before end of business today. Thanks
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1060958 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

dave-o
Posted on: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 - 11:34


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,824
Joined: 7 Jan 2008
From: London
Member No.: 16,454


We've got one day left on the discount. Is it worth challenging at all, and if so on which grounds?
  Forum: Council Parking Tickets & Clamping and Decr... · Post Preview: #1060684 · Replies: 53 · Views: 5,554

503 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 

New Posts  New Replies
No New Posts  No New Replies
Hot topic  Hot Topic (New)
No new  Hot Topic (No New)
Poll  Poll (New)
No new votes  Poll (No New)
Closed  Locked Topic
Moved  Moved Topic
 

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 15th November 2018 - 19:50
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.