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68 in a 50 (End of M62 Motorway at Liverpool), Caught by a speeding camera
NorthEnd
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 08:58
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Hi guys,

When driving to work (in a company van) this morning at the end of the M62 near Liverpool at around 4am, to my surprise I noticed a flash (twice) on my mirrors as I went under the electronic boards.

Now as I'm aware (wasn't at the time) the speed limit is apparently 50mph on that stretch of motorway just before the motorway ends and it then goes into a 40mph zone.

Anyway, I was driving along probably at just under the national speed limit on the motorway unaware to any speed limit changes (it was 4am and dark and I honestly didn't see any signs notifying me that it was a 50mph zone, I know that's not an excuse) and as previously mentioned I was flashed twice.

As I was doing around 68/69 MPH in the 50 zone, what can I expect to happen? Baring in mind it's my first time ever caught speeding.

I understand this is out of the limit for a speeding course, yes?

But what will I likely be hit with?

After having a go on the calculator, I notice it said I was eligible for a COFP (£60 and 3 points) is this something I can accept straight away and not receive any further penalties when the NIP arrives?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm new to this whole speeding stuff and if I'm honest I'm a little worried what I'm going to get for an honest mistake.

Thanks.
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post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 08:58
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The Rookie
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:18
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Probably just too fast for a speed awareness course (no points, circa £95 and 4 hours of your time), you'll be offered a fixed penalty of 3 points and £100 (the calculator is out f date on the fine).

A Notice of Intention to Prosecute (NIP) will be sent to the registered keeper requiring them to name the driver, that may go through a few desks for a company vehicle before you get one in your name for you ro respond confirming you were driving, circa 1-2 weeks after that you'll get one of the above two offers depending on the actual speed measured (Cut off for a course is 64mph actual - measured - speed, so probably 66-68mph on your speedo).

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:25


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Jlc
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:20
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That excess (if actually caught) would be in line for a fixed penalty - 3 points and £100. (The wizard is a little out of date)

The usual process will be that they will send a NIP to the registered keeper of the van - which will be the company or more likely a lease company. Eventually you will be named and will receive your own NIP. You name yourself and they then will send a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty to either accept or go to court.

QUOTE (NorthEnd @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 08:58) *
...what I'm going to get for an honest mistake.

It's a minor transgression but does refocus the mind on limits.

I'm assuming the signage is correct - and I think we had a similar case on here the other day and the signage looked fine.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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NorthEnd
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:25
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:18) *
Probably just too fast for a speed awareness course (no points, circa £95 and 4 hours of your time), you'll be offered a fixed penalty of 3 points and £100.

A Notice of Intention to Prosecute (NIP) will be sent to the registered keeper requiring them to name the driver, that may go through a few desks for a company vehicle before you get one in your name for you ro respond confirming you were driving, circa 1-2 weeks after that you'll get one of the above two offers depending on the actual speed measured (Cut off for a course is 64mph actually, so probably 66-68mph on your speedo).


Thanks for your response, appreciated.

Hopefully, as I don't actually know what speed I was going, im slightly out in my prediction.

I'm only a young driver so I could really do without the points for insurance sake (as could everyone I know).
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The Rookie
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:28
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If you are a new driver (obtained first full entitlement less than 2 years ago) you are only one more mistake away from losing your licence, so its time to start being more aware I think?


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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NorthEnd
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:31
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:20) *
That excess (if actually caught) would be in line for a fixed penalty - 3 points and £100. (The wizard is a little out of date)

The usual process will be that they will send a NIP to the registered keeper of the van - which will be the company or more likely a lease company. Eventually you will be named and will receive your own NIP. You name yourself and they then will send a Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty to either accept or go to court.

QUOTE (NorthEnd @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 08:58) *
...what I'm going to get for an honest mistake.

It's a minor transgression but does refocus the mind on limits.

I'm assuming the signage is correct - and I think we had a similar case on here the other day and the signage looked fine.



It's funny because I'm almost convinced in my mind that I didn't see any signage whatsoever for the 50mph zone, I understand theres a 99% chance there actually was and I somehow missed it. Weird as I noticed the sign that indicated the motorway would be reduced from 3 lanes to 2 for the works taking place. And I noticed a national speed limit sign for the vehicles joining the motorway the junction before on the entry slip road.





QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:28) *
If you are a new driver (obtained first full entitlement less than 2 years ago) you are only one more mistake away from losing your licence, so its time to start being more aware I think?


New driver and young driver perhaps different?

I've been driving just under 3 years now so I'll be okay in that respect.
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morrisman
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:39
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GSV of start of 50 limit
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bearclaw
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:44
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:20) *
I'm assuming the signage is correct - and I think we had a similar case on here the other day and the signage looked fine.


If it's the camera that gets everyone else then there is a small grotty sign just before it that can be missed but there is a huge new set of three 50mph signs earlier on and a set of countdown markers to the 50mph limit as well. It's pretty clear I'm afraid.
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NorthEnd
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:57
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QUOTE (morrisman @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:39) *
GSV of start of 50 limit


Fair enough. How I've missed that I'll never know. It was 4am and dark around there to be fair I suppose.

Anyway, I'll just have to see when the NIP arrives as to what speed I was actually doing in regards to a course or no course.

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big_mac
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 13:40
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QUOTE (NorthEnd @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:57) *
QUOTE (morrisman @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 09:39) *
GSV of start of 50 limit


Fair enough. How I've missed that I'll never know. It was 4am and dark around there to be fair I suppose.

Anyway, I'll just have to see when the NIP arrives as to what speed I was actually doing in regards to a course or no course.


I think there is a possible defence that the signs are not illuminated and are within 50m of a street lamp.
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The Rookie
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 15:02
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Are they? Looks more than 50m to me.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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KH_
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 17:47
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 15:02) *
Are they? Looks more than 50m to me.


Curiosity question, as I don't know the answer. Do streetlights have to be on the same side of the carriageway? The one over the far side of the carriageway is less than 25m away.
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Incandescent
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 18:37
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Is there any real reason for the 50 mph limit there ? I'm thinking that it was put in when the notorious Speed Camera Partnerships could hoover-up all the money from the fines. Of course this then morphed into the SACs which is essentially the cash flow remains and ends up in the same place.
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big_mac
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 19:20
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 15:02) *
Are they? Looks more than 50m to me.

Seriously?
https://goo.gl/maps/gCZvB9DvMC92

QUOTE
Is there any real reason for the 50 mph limit there ?

Shortly afterwards there is quite a blind hill, shortly followed by queuing traffic in the mornings.
While I would assume that people would slow down on approaching the hill, I have been told by people who commute that way that it was something of a blackspot.
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666
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 19:40
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QUOTE (KH_ @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 17:47) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 15:02) *
Are they? Looks more than 50m to me.


Curiosity question, as I don't know the answer. Do streetlights have to be on the same side of the carriageway? The one over the far side of the carriageway is less than 25m away.


No.
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Logician
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 19:56
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 18:37) *
Is there any real reason for the 50 mph limit there ? I'm thinking that it was put in when the notorious Speed Camera Partnerships could hoover-up all the money from the fines. Of course this then morphed into the SACs which is essentially the cash flow remains and ends up in the same place.


I'm thinking the end of the motorway is half a mile further on, and you are then right into a built up area.



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Incandescent
post Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 23:41
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QUOTE (Logician @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 19:56) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 18:37) *
Is there any real reason for the 50 mph limit there ? I'm thinking that it was put in when the notorious Speed Camera Partnerships could hoover-up all the money from the fines. Of course this then morphed into the SACs which is essentially the cash flow remains and ends up in the same place.


I'm thinking the end of the motorway is half a mile further on, and you are then right into a built up area.

OK, fair enough. I think the key combination is the ending of the motorway and the hill approach just before queues form as Big Mac describes.
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peterguk
post Sat, 10 Mar 2018 - 00:49
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 23:41) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 19:56) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 18:37) *
Is there any real reason for the 50 mph limit there ? I'm thinking that it was put in when the notorious Speed Camera Partnerships could hoover-up all the money from the fines. Of course this then morphed into the SACs which is essentially the cash flow remains and ends up in the same place.


I'm thinking the end of the motorway is half a mile further on, and you are then right into a built up area.

OK, fair enough. I think the key combination is the ending of the motorway and the hill approach just before queues form as Big Mac describes.


End of the motorway is about 1/2 mile past a brow of an incline. It is easy at peak periods for the traffic to build up at the end of the motorway, and i suspect the 50 limit is there to save traffic suddenly coming across stationary queues.


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NorthEnd
post Sat, 10 Mar 2018 - 01:52
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sat, 10 Mar 2018 - 00:49) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 23:41) *
QUOTE (Logician @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 19:56) *
QUOTE (Incandescent @ Fri, 9 Mar 2018 - 18:37) *
Is there any real reason for the 50 mph limit there ? I'm thinking that it was put in when the notorious Speed Camera Partnerships could hoover-up all the money from the fines. Of course this then morphed into the SACs which is essentially the cash flow remains and ends up in the same place.


I'm thinking the end of the motorway is half a mile further on, and you are then right into a built up area.

OK, fair enough. I think the key combination is the ending of the motorway and the hill approach just before queues form as Big Mac describes.


End of the motorway is about 1/2 mile past a brow of an incline. It is easy at peak periods for the traffic to build up at the end of the motorway, and i suspect the 50 limit is there to save traffic suddenly coming across stationary queues.



Kind of adds an extra kick in the teeth that it was 4 in the morning and I was the only vehicle within sight on that stretch.
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The Rookie
post Sat, 10 Mar 2018 - 06:05
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Unfortunately that is how all speed limits work.

There are a number of Mways that have a limit at the end for similar reasons, the M11 into London for example.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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