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First time court attendance.
3lward
post Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 22:51
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Evening.

Had a NIP through today for doing 63 in a 30 it was at 7.50am on a 2 mile 2 laned straight on an industrial estate. I have no excuse for what I have done and I know I am going to get summoned to court.

I'm a bit apprehensive on what punishment to expect and what to say in court as I have never been in this position before. I've held a clean licence for almost 6 years now and I have no other criminal convictions, I also work in the motor trade as a parts specialist so my licence is quite important to my job role plus the fact I have just found out my wife is expecting which is another reason to want to keep my licence! Im obviously going to plead guilty to the charge and hope for the best but if anybody could advise one extremely anxious 26 year old I would be grateful. Thanks!
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post Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 22:51
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Jlc
post Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 23:07
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That excess is odds on for a short ban. Possibly somewhere around 1-2 months.

6 points is the alternative - you may be able to influence the bench towards points but you don’t get a choice.

The fine will be 1 weeks's earnings along with costs of £85 and surcharge of 10% of the fine (min £30).


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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3lward
post Wed, 7 Mar 2018 - 23:11
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I thought as much after trawling forums for hours! I'm pretty cheesed off with myself and I have no excuse for it. Just turn up and take it on the chin.

I'm more worried about the actual questions I'll be asked.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 06:58
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No reason you will be asked any question if after being asked if you have anything to say, you say no.

What is done is done, if you present some sort of mitigation then you’ll be asked about that, but no-one will demand to know why you were driving at that speed.


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Jlc
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 07:24
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You will get a chance to submit a postal plea first and it’s a long shot but could get 6 points but it’s far more likely you’ll have to attend court for them to consider the ban.

Any ban is immediate so you cannot drive home.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 07:25


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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3lward
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 08:09
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Ok thanks for the advice. Can I do a postal plea first then get summoned to court or is It better to just refuse the postal plea and just attend court first as last?
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Jlc
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 08:11
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There’s nothing to be lost in trying the postal plea - well, assuming you’d prefer an initial shot at 6 points?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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3lward
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 09:11
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Well yes that is the ideal outcome I just didn't want so surrender my chance of representing myself in court by submitting a postal plea.
Thanks again.
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notmeatloaf
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 11:07
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QUOTE (3lward @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 09:11) *
Well yes that is the ideal outcome I just didn't want so surrender my chance of representing myself in court by submitting a postal plea.
Thanks again.

If they are considering banning you (which is very likely) the case will get sent to court and you will not be disadvantaged in any way.

As has been said if you prefer points you can try and lead the magistrates in that direction, e.g. "I appreciate at that speed a significant number of points are inevitable and they will be a constant reminder to me over the coming years to pay attention to speed limits". Anecdotally it sometimes works.

Be cautious not to appear to be making excuses though, e.g. that the speeding was somehow a lesser offence due to the nature of the road. It can come across as an "I know best when limits can be ignored". Contrite and apologetic is the way to go.
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3lward
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 11:50
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To be honest I'm not looking to excuse myself as it was a stupid thing to do and a complete error of judgement. I've driven that road every day for 3 bloody years too!

As I work in the motor trade my licence is quite important does supporting statements from employers help? I work for a family run business so it will be coming from the managing director.

Also as regards to insurance for next year what is worse, having a short ban and no points or 6 points?

Thanks

This post has been edited by 3lward: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 11:59
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 12:03
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As said above, if you plead guilty the SJP may give you two shots. If you say the phrase above it may mind them to consider 6 points is 3 years of pain.
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Logician
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 12:22
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QUOTE (3lward @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 11:50) *
Also as regards to insurance for next year what is worse, having a short ban and no points or 6 points? Thanks


You can get an idea of that by getting dummy quotes on a comparison site, do not use your real name or address though, because records can be kept.



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3lward
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 12:58
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 12:03) *
As said above, if you plead guilty the SJP may give you two shots. If you say the phrase above it may mind them to consider 6 points is 3 years of pain.


Sorry I'm not following?
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BaggieBoy
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:17
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QUOTE (3lward @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 12:58) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 12:03) *
As said above, if you plead guilty the SJP may give you two shots. If you say the phrase above it may mind them to consider 6 points is 3 years of pain.


Sorry I'm not following?

Read post #9.
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Jlc
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:25
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SJP is the the postal procedure. Single Justice Procedure - where a single Magistrate considers the matter on papers only. The usual procedure would be to revert to a normal court hearing should they want to consider a ban as they would normally only issue points. (As the ban is immediate there's a possibility you would not be aware of such a ban)

In terms on insurance a ban would normally be loaded more than 6 points but it depends on your circumstances and insurer. The point about pain is being closer to totting (12 points within 3 years) - a 6 month ban. (Possible to reduce with an exceptional hardship plea)

Such points would be a longer lasting reminder than a spent ban.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 13:27


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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3lward
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 14:51
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Ok thanks for the info you've been a great help. So fingers crossed somebody nice comes across my postal plea and if I put a strong case across for them to consider me keeping my licence I should receive 6 points and a hefty fine? Obviously I'm not holding out for this I'm preparing myself for the worst which is a 56 day ban.

I totted up to 6 points many moons ago and they expired around 4 years ago. Can they see your previous convictions?
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Jlc
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 15:07
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QUOTE (3lward @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 14:51) *
Ok thanks for the info you've been a great help. So fingers crossed somebody nice comes across my postal plea and if I put a strong case across for them to consider me keeping my licence I should receive 6 points and a hefty fine? Obviously I'm not holding out for this I'm preparing myself for the worst which is a 56 day ban.

Actually, it could be more than 56 days but probably unlikely:

QUOTE
Where an offender is driving grossly in excess of the speed limit the court should consider a disqualification in excess of 56 days.


QUOTE (3lward @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 14:51) *
I totted up to 6 points many moons ago and they expired around 4 years ago. Can they see your previous convictions?

Yes.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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NewJudge
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 15:08
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QUOTE (3lward @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 14:51) *
...I should receive 6 points and a hefty fine?

The fine will be the same whether you are disqualified or receive six points. There is no "trade off" between points/ban and the fine. It will be a week's net income (which includes a third off for your guilty plea). You will also pay £85 costs and a surcharge of 10% of the fine (minimum £30).

You should realise that you are well into ban territory. The guidelines provide the option of a ban (of up to 28 days) from 41mph. However the top band of seriousness where a ban is far more likely begins at 51mph. Magistrates are not restricted to 56 days. Where speed is "excessive" they can consider a longer disqualification. It is up to them whether they consider more than twice the limit to be excessive. Personally I believe you will extremely fortunate to walk away with six points.
QUOTE (3lward @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 14:51) *
Can they see your previous convictions?

They are unlikely to be given details of your previous offences and even if they are it is not likely to have any effect.

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3lward
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 16:02
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QUOTE (NewJudge @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 15:08) *
QUOTE (3lward @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 14:51) *
...I should receive 6 points and a hefty fine?

The fine will be the same whether you are disqualified or receive six points. There is no "trade off" between points/ban and the fine. It will be a week's net income (which includes a third off for your guilty plea). You will also pay £85 costs and a surcharge of 10% of the fine (minimum £30).

You should realise that you are well into ban territory. The guidelines provide the option of a ban (of up to 28 days) from 41mph. However the top band of seriousness where a ban is far more likely begins at 51mph. Magistrates are not restricted to 56 days. Where speed is "excessive" they can consider a longer disqualification. It is up to them whether they consider more than twice the limit to be excessive. Personally I believe you will extremely fortunate to walk away with six points.
QUOTE (3lward @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 14:51) *
Can they see your previous convictions?

They are unlikely to be given details of your previous offences and even if they are it is not likely to have any effect.



To be honest I'm seeing alot of conflicting stories and opinions. I'm just gonna have to go in and hope for the best. What ever will be will be whatever they give me won't be more than I'm already punishing myself!
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Jlc
post Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 17:44
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QUOTE (3lward @ Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 16:02) *
To be honest I'm seeing alot of conflicting stories and opinions.

I think it's mostly consistent:

Try the postal plea but will probably adjourn for a court hearing.
Assume a ban (around 2 months), and 6 points is a long shot.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Thu, 8 Mar 2018 - 17:45


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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