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[NIP Wizard] M56 - NIP at Roadside after failed stop and search
123creative
post Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 19:59
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2017
Date of the NIP: - 0 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 0 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - M56 39/42
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - Was followed and pulled over between these markers, was pulled over and detained under caution for suspicion of driving under influence, car was searched and I passed drug swab.

This took around 30 minutes.

Then was brought up that I was speeding, was given an NIP at roadside.

The PC said that he followed me through the markers under a calibrated vehicle, and that my speed was 80-85 (says 80-85 on NIP).

My cruise was definitely set to 76mph, as I also checked that once back in the vehicle, feel like it was an excuse because they didn't find anything, and also called me 'lucky' as I left the car and felt to be made out a liar!

The car was a BMW marked car with a single PC.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England
- England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sun, 04 Mar 2018 19:59:54 +0000

This post has been edited by 123creative: Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 20:30
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post Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 19:59
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peterguk
post Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 20:21
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Any questions?


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123creative
post Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 20:30
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Just what would be next steps? Would it be worth fighting? I know it will be my word against his
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peterguk
post Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 20:47
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QUOTE (123creative @ Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 20:30) *
Just what would be next steps? Would it be worth fighting? I know it will be my word against his


Well if had a calibrated speedometer, it'll be more than just his word.

You'll have to wait and see what arrives in the post.


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notmeatloaf
post Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 21:00
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What exactly have you got? It would be unusual to get a piece of paper headed "Notice of Intent to Prosecute" at the side of the road, normally it would be something like a Traffic Offence Report.

Quite often when you get them in a "can't get you for anything else" then nothing more is heard of it, it is just face saving for the police officer. But without knowing exactly what you have in your hand it is difficult to say much more.
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123creative
post Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 21:40
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Sorry you are correct, it is a Traffic Offence Report, he described it as a NIP though (and says intended for NIP on back), I just misread


It goes

My details

Offence Ex: Speed
Offence Code: 1507
Speed: 80-85

Vehicle details

My license details

Caution Reply - N/A

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notmeatloaf
post Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 22:04
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With a TOR it goes to an office where a clerk decides what further action to take, removing discretion from police at the side of the road for better or for worse.

There are two likely outcomes.

1. The clerk queries the "80-85" with the officer who, in the light of day, says not to pursue it. In this instance you often hear nothing unless you poke the hornets nest and ask.

2. The clerk decides that "80" is enough for them and sends out a speed awareness course/fixed penalty notice. You can then decide whether to go with the certainty of that, or the risk of court. The issue that you have is that, by your own admission, you were exceeding the speed limit albeit by a degree that wouldn't usually be punished.

However, cross that bridge when you come to it. Hopefully you will hear nothing more.
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andy_foster
post Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 22:13
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 20:47) *
Well if had a calibrated speedometer, it'll be more than just his word.


How so? Assuming that there is no physical record of the calibrated speedometer's reading, the only evidence of it would be the word of the single PC driving the police car.


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Millenial (noun): a person who is offended at being told "Suck it up, buttercup"
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peterguk
post Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 22:26
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 22:13) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 20:47) *
Well if had a calibrated speedometer, it'll be more than just his word.


How so? Assuming that there is no physical record of the calibrated speedometer's reading, the only evidence of it would be the word of the single PC driving the police car.


My point being PC's word would include the fact that the speed was measured using a calibrated speedometer as opposed to pure guessing.


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cp8759
post Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 23:08
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 22:26) *
My point being PC's word would include the fact that the speed was measured using a calibrated speedometer as opposed to pure guessing.

Surely you mean "as opposed to his expert opinion alone"?


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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Redivi
post Mon, 5 Mar 2018 - 08:17
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If the alleged speeding is on a motorway, does it even need a speedometer reading and not just a single officer's opinion ?

Haven't we seen threads that the speedometer was calibrated later ?
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andy_foster
post Mon, 5 Mar 2018 - 09:10
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The obvious implication from the OP's posts is that the occifer fabricated the 80-85mph speed for some reason. His problems in defending this are two-fold - with only his word against the word of the occifer, are the court likely to doubt the evidence of the occifer, and his evidence that he was not speeding (the offence is exceeding the speed limit, not doing some specific (or range of specified) speed) is that his cruise control was set to exceed the speed limit (assuming that 76 relates to comfortably within the ACPO 10%+2 guidelines, rather than equating to a true 70mph with a rather optimistic speedo).

A court would either believe the occifer or they would have doubts. They are not likely to find that he might have made up the bit about the speedo but are certain beyond any reasonable belief based on his opinion evidence that the OP was speeding.


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Millenial (noun): a person who is offended at being told "Suck it up, buttercup"
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Colin_S
post Mon, 5 Mar 2018 - 09:32
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QUOTE (123creative @ Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 19:59) *
My cruise was definitely set to 76mph, as I also checked that once back in the vehicle,


Presumably you were asked to switch of the engine? Does your car retain the cruise control speed once restarted? None of mine ever have.
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 5 Mar 2018 - 10:02
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QUOTE (Colin_S @ Mon, 5 Mar 2018 - 09:32) *
QUOTE (123creative @ Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 19:59) *
My cruise was definitely set to 76mph, as I also checked that once back in the vehicle,


Presumably you were asked to switch of the engine? Does your car retain the cruise control speed once restarted? None of mine ever have.

It's also an irrelevant question because the only evidence is the OP's word, and they have said that it was set to 76mph before they were stopped, which is the relevant period.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Mon, 5 Mar 2018 - 10:03
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cp8759
post Mon, 5 Mar 2018 - 13:18
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QUOTE (notmeatloaf @ Mon, 5 Mar 2018 - 10:02) *
QUOTE (Colin_S @ Mon, 5 Mar 2018 - 09:32) *
QUOTE (123creative @ Sun, 4 Mar 2018 - 19:59) *
My cruise was definitely set to 76mph, as I also checked that once back in the vehicle,


Presumably you were asked to switch of the engine? Does your car retain the cruise control speed once restarted? None of mine ever have.

It's also an irrelevant question because the only evidence is the OP's word, and they have said that it was set to 76mph before they were stopped, which is the relevant period.

With cruise control set at 76 the car would have probably only been doing 74, if the OP could conclusively prove he was doing 74 any prosecution would be liable to be stayed as an abuse of process.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 5 Mar 2018 - 13:58
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But it would probably be a high risk and costly strategy, only really worth it if the OP was prepared to accept the time and money needed to (possibly) prove a point.
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123creative
post Tue, 6 Mar 2018 - 00:41
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Thanks for the replies, my car has always recorded the last CC or Speed Limiter setting, including the previous sat nav setting...

I know this will be a my word versus his word case, I have never been sent a NIP or pulled over before, so I assume I will probably be offered a course.

Just seems wrong that because I can't prove otherwise (I am assuming who can?!?), it seems a free pass to be ticketed.

I have requested a copy of the search report, but I can only assume even though I was told I was being pulled over because of reason A, and got ticketed for reason B, it is easier to take the course (if offered).

He did mention that his car records the GPS between two points and this can be used as evidence, can I request these results when a ticket comes through?

This post has been edited by 123creative: Tue, 6 Mar 2018 - 00:42
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Jlc
post Tue, 6 Mar 2018 - 06:49
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When offered a course or conditional fixed penalty this is in lieu of prosecution. You can ask for anything but they are unlikely to provide unless you opt for court.


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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