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[NIP Wizard] First timer...
TaiOtoshi
post Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 20:43
Post #1


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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - November 2019
Date of the NIP: - 11 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 19 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - At M25, Junction 9 to 10, Leatherhead to Wisley, UNITED KINGDOM on 22/11/2019 at 22:51 hours. Speed 64 mph (speed not applicable for red light offences). Speed limit 50 mph.
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was driving at night, the traffic was extremely light and the road was clear. I remember there was no rain.

I vaguely remember other vehicles slowing down so I started to slow from 70 mph. The signs on the gantries above had switched to 50mph and I remember braking and seeing a 'flash' and thinking 'oh no.'

About a mile after the flash, there was a vehicle on the hard shoulder. I vaguely remember some kind of construction vehicle in yellow. There were a couple of cones and lots of flashing lights. All-in-all, the 'construction' part was about 30 yards long.

I have around 30 years driving experience and these are my first, potential points.


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Unsure
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 20:43:03 +0000
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post Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 20:43
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BaggieBoy
post Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 21:36
Post #2


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Any idea why it appears to have taken 8 days to reach you after posting?
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TaiOtoshi
post Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 00:25
Post #3


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QUOTE (BaggieBoy @ Wed, 11 Dec 2019 - 21:36) *
Any idea why it appears to have taken 8 days to reach you after posting?


Thanks for asking. I think it's more at my end. I hadn't seen it but post in my building sometimes gets mixed up with other people.
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666
post Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 07:54
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Any quaetion? Nothing you've said so far suggests a defence.
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TaiOtoshi
post Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 13:43
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QUOTE (666 @ Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 07:54) *
Any quaetion? Nothing you've said so far suggests a defence.


What's annoying is the imbalance in that I've never committed a crime in my life and am getting stung for it. However, my elderly father was hospitalised by a hit-and-run driver which was witnessed by a chartered surveyor. The witness took the registration plate, make of the vehicle and the police let slip that that all fit together. The police informed my father they sent the hit-and-run driver a letter asking if it was them. When the hit-and-run driver didn't reply, the police didn't pursue on the grounds they were busy. Yet for a 64 in a 50 on a clear, motorway, I'm dead to rights. For actual crimes, the police don't give a **** so I want to take this as far as I can, even if I lose.

I have no idea what the typical 'attacks' are. For example:

1. What are the typical attempts at defence? Can I request the following:
i. Requesting speed camera calibration
ii. The speed indications were on overhead gantries so checking they were all in place, unobscured and working correctly.

2. Does 'something' need to trigger a variable speed limit?
i. If that thing is not in place, then is the variable speed limit indicator invalid?
ii. And if that thing needs to be in place, what are the criteria for this?

3. How would you go on the attack?

4. What are typical penalties for 64 in a 50, albeit in a variable speed zone, bearing in mind my clean driving record.

5. Final question: If I do get points and I'm criminalised, might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb so does anyone want to go rob a bank with me? I'll bring the masks and sawn-off.
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Jlc
post Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 13:50
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QUOTE (TaiOtoshi @ Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 13:43) *
4. What are typical penalties for 64 in a 50, albeit in a variable speed zone, bearing in mind my clean driving record.

A course offer to avoid points or a fixed penalty of 3 points £100.

QUOTE (TaiOtoshi @ Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 13:43) *
5. Final question: If I do get points and I'm criminalised, might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb so does anyone want to go rob a bank with me? I'll bring the masks and sawn-off.

Yes, it's a criminal offence but non-reportable and unlikely to give you any issues. (Other than a small insurance premium increase perhaps)

You are amongst thousands caught for these minor offences - I think you are overreacting.


You can't go on the 'attack' - either you have a defence or not. It is unlikely your speed was measured incorrectly and you would have to show it wasn't. The purpose of the speed limit change is highly unlikely to be used as a defence.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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TaiOtoshi
post Fri, 13 Dec 2019 - 02:33
Post #7


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Member No.: 107,026



QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 13:50) *
QUOTE (TaiOtoshi @ Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 13:43) *
4. What are typical penalties for 64 in a 50, albeit in a variable speed zone, bearing in mind my clean driving record.

A course offer to avoid points or a fixed penalty of 3 points £100.

QUOTE (TaiOtoshi @ Thu, 12 Dec 2019 - 13:43) *
5. Final question: If I do get points and I'm criminalised, might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb so does anyone want to go rob a bank with me? I'll bring the masks and sawn-off.

Yes, it's a criminal offence but non-reportable and unlikely to give you any issues. (Other than a small insurance premium increase perhaps)

You are amongst thousands caught for these minor offences - I think you are overreacting.


You can't go on the 'attack' - either you have a defence or not. It is unlikely your speed was measured incorrectly and you would have to show it wasn't. The purpose of the speed limit change is highly unlikely to be used as a defence.


Thanks for letting me know and also setting me right on the law thing. My only experience of lawyers and the law is in divorce and the corporate world. In the case of the divorce lawyer, I had one who went on the attack with eye-opening results. And if there is a corporate dispute, it's adversarial.

Particularly in the divorce, I discovered the difference in having a good lawyer. Just incredible.

I have literally no idea of how the law works in the case of The Crown vs... But I still think that topping up a bank account around Xmas isn't a bad idea... * glances at the shotgun cabinet and the saw sitting on it *
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The Rookie
post Fri, 13 Dec 2019 - 03:47
Post #8


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From: Warwickshire
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There is not need for any court involvement with this, you’ll either be offered an awareness course (most likely) or a fixed penalty. It’s only if you don’t accept the offer will the case go to court. Even then you have no bed to attend as a guilty plea would see you sentenced without attending unless you chose to.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Ocelot
post Fri, 13 Dec 2019 - 16:25
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From: Surrey
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As others have said, you may be offered a course (approx £100 and no points).

Even if you were to receive 3 points, if you accept the fixed penalty, that is an alternative to Court (like an out of court settlement) which means not even a minor criminal offence on your record.
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