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parked under a sign outside loading times but got ticket for blocking footway
kiloecho
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 20:51
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We have received a penalty charge notice in the post.
The reason for the ticket is because “the vehicle was parked adjacent to a pedestrian dropped kerb thus causing an obstruction to the pedestrian wishing to gain access to and from the footway.” The officer also said they were prevented from issuing a ticket.

There was a sign that said no parking 8am-6.30pm (in yellow) it also has a red circle with a blue inner and a red stripe though it and under that it said No loading Monday-sat 8am-6.30pm (white). We parked after 6.30pm on a week day outside a restaurant and we were picking something up. We came out and saw the officer about to start writing a ticket, we explained we were picking something up from the restaurant, and picking two people up having problems walking. He got aggressive and then walked off.

They have sent photos of the car blocking a drop kerb but didn’t take photos of the sign.

We appealed with our photos stating the above and this was rejected. We want to appeal to the Adjudicator as there was a sign.
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post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 20:51
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 20:52
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post the PCN the council photos and a GSV
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stamfordman
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 21:19
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No signs needed for dropped kerbs,

Use a pic site such as Imgur or Flickr for pics.

GSV = Google street view
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kiloecho
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 21:45
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Attached Image
This is the sign
Attached thumbnail(s)
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stamfordman
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 21:51
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Sign is irrelevant to the contravention you were given.

We need to see the council pics and Google Street View of location.
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kiloecho
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 21:57
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Attached Image
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stamfordman
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 22:02
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And where is this Cranbrook Road? It looks like a dropped kerb but can't make out anything opposite. That's why we need GSV.
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kiloecho
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 22:10
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https://www.instantstreetview.com/@51.57508....18h,-11.68p,1z

does this help. not sure how to do this and if I am doing this correctly, so sorry.

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stamfordman
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 22:20
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Oh yes it helps - I think we've seen this one before - no matching crossing:

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stamfordman
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 22:34
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Just to add on this one. There is a view that the council has also introduced confusion with the single yellow line so indeed the signage does come into play too. Dropped kerbs do not need any signage though. The fact that there is no opposite DK and the single yellow I think should be enough to win this.

See also:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=102696
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Incandescent
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 22:37
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Yes, but if you look carefully, by the corner of the red-brick wall, there is a dropped kerb for two sides, and I suspect the council will claim the dropped kerb where the OP parked is for crossing to that point. It makes the situation ambiguous in my opinion, so an adjudication could go either way.
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PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 22:52
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QUOTE (Incandescent @ Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 22:37) *
Yes, but if you look carefully, by the corner of the red-brick wall, there is a dropped kerb for two sides, and I suspect the council will claim the dropped kerb where the OP parked is for crossing to that point. It makes the situation ambiguous in my opinion, so an adjudication could go either way.


They probably will, but this can be countered. there is a DK at the end of the pavement.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.5750856,0...3312!8i6656

The whole set up is a shambles. SYL with double kerb blips and a sign with a part time loading restriction.

appeals have won in the past where yellow lines have caused confusion, and a sign right next to where you park telling you when the restriction applies can easily be construed as confusing
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cp8759
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 23:29
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I won't say this isn't winnable, but on the face of it the contravention is clear.

kiloecho, can you please show us the PCN, your representations, and their response?


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 15 Feb 2018 - 10:42
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 23:29) *
I won't say this isn't winnable, but on the face of it the contravention is clear.

kiloecho, can you please show us the PCN, your representations, and their response?


Clear DK not clear contravention

2160409435 2160405977 2150447278 2150423145
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kiloecho
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 07:42
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Representation
• Websites down unable to view photos so appeal based on letter. I want to reserve the opportunity to see the photographs and all evidence because the account provided is materially different to what I know took place.
• The car was parked outside the hours of the parking bay. It wasn’t blocking anything.
• I was collecting things/goods from the restaurant at the time and there were two people with me physical problems, was picking them up and the goods from restaurant. Was loading, getting stuff from restaurant.
• the car wasn’t even observed that long being parked there, only 3 minutes, which is not longer than necessary.
• Attendant not prevented/obstructed from giving ticket- had conversation with him, he watch us take photos of sign/car.

Their response
We have rejected your representation because your vehicle was pared to a pedestrian dropped kerb causing an obstruction to the pedestrian wishing to gain access to an from the footway.
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 09:07
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QUOTE (kiloecho @ Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 07:42) *
Representation
• Websites down unable to view photos so appeal based on letter. I want to reserve the opportunity to see the photographs and all evidence because the account provided is materially different to what I know took place.
• The car was parked outside the hours of the parking bay. It wasn’t blocking anything.
• I was collecting things/goods from the restaurant at the time and there were two people with me physical problems, was picking them up and the goods from restaurant. Was loading, getting stuff from restaurant.
• the car wasn’t even observed that long being parked there, only 3 minutes, which is not longer than necessary.
• Attendant not prevented/obstructed from giving ticket- had conversation with him, he watch us take photos of sign/car.

Their response
We have rejected your representation because your vehicle was pared to a pedestrian dropped kerb causing an obstruction to the pedestrian wishing to gain access to an from the footway.



post ALL of your challenge and their rejection
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kiloecho
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 16:31
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I didn't have access to everything earlier on but I do now here goes. We did not appreciate the DK aspect but focused on the sign. I don't know what this means for us.

Attached Image


APPEAL
I am writing to appeal this.

The details contained in the penalty charge notice do not match my understanding as to what took place. I would like copies of the any notes and or photographs taken. Your website was down when I tried to do this online . I have had to travel without being able to see the photos or anything save for the notice.

The parking attendant told me that I could go. He was not prevented from putting anything on my car or from giving it to me and we even spoke and he walked away and watched me as I stood by my car. I watched him speak to another car owner who was parked by the bus stop (blue BMW) that he had been watching. He did not give this person a ticket but instead they shook hands like friends, exchanged pleasantries. I even asked him how come you are treating this person with respect, yet felt the need to speak to me so rudely. He watched me take photographs. I even joked saying I should take a photo of him. I wish I did. He said I could go so I’m not sure why I now get a ticket.

I do not know why the attendant felt the need to speak to me so disrespectfully. He said that I get the restaurant to pay for my ticket, when I said I was collecting goods/people. I was parked in a loading bay outside of the hours. I have witnesses. I also have photos with times showing my car still at the road so how could I have driven off.

The car was parked outside the hours of the parking bay. It wasn’t blocking anything. I was collecting things/goods from the restaurant at the time and there were two people with me who can attest to this. These people have physical problems, with their legs, knees and I was picking them up and the goods. As you can see the car wasn’t even observed that long being parked there, only 3 minutes, which is not longer than necessary. He saw me with my goods and these people. He saw me moving my car, he saw me take the photos. I told him to write that I was loading, getting stuff, so did the people that was with me.

I want to reserve the opportunity to see the photographs and all evidence because the account provided is materially different to what I know took place. Please note that I have to go and bury my grandmother so hope that you will consider when responding to me please and giving me time to get back to you.
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kiloecho
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 16:42
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PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 17:34
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And the PCN ALL pages
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DancingDad
post Fri, 16 Feb 2018 - 21:51
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We have seen this one before though cannot remember if any got to adjudication.

DK is IMO an historical one, the restaurant being something else in the past that required a DK for goods or vehicle access.
It is not for pedestrians as pedestrians have nowhere to go if they use it.
And if it was for vehicle, has now passed its use by date
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