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PCN for suspended bay i wasnt in!
mylifestory
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:26
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Im writing as I don't know how much detail to go into in my challenge to a council PCN.

I parked near a school and was out of the car for precisely 1 minute to pick up a child. No zigzag lines as everyone expects. I returned to find a parking man hastily attaching a ticket to my car so it wasn't even closed. I read it said I was in a suspended ex disabled bay and I asked him why he had issued it as I wasn't in that bay. He pointed me to the signs and I pointed him to the bay it referred to, next to my car. He quickly got in the car he'd been hiding in previously and scarpered. Me taking pictures clearly rifled him.

This is a hard 1 to explain but my car is the blue 1 in the middle, the ex disabled bay is the empty 1 to the left. Do note that the black car next to me in another bay has a flyer attached to it about parking in a suspended bay when that is the wrong bay so even they don't know which 1 it is! Who would know which lamp post is no.6 as the same sign is attached to 2 different ones and which had been a disabled bay when all that has been covered up with the signs.

The question is, do I just say I dispute it as im not parked in any bay or do I go further like mentioning its observed for 1 minute, unclear which bay even to them etc. A week ago there has been a story in our local paper from Wandsworth council saying there's a 5 minute grace period on yellow lines outside schools for pick ups. Do I need to mention this?

Any comments on wording this gratefully received!

This post has been edited by mylifestory: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:30
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post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:26
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stamfordman
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:31
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Looks like you were in no bay but on a single yellow line so you could have been given a ticket but not for the code you got. So hopefully a lucky escape.

Others will be along shortly.
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makara
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:32
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Is that all of the front of the PCN? And post up the back too.
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DancingDad
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:38
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Correct me if I am wrong but you are not parked in a parking bay at all, just at end of road ????
Here ???
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4442292,-...3312!8i6656
Do both suspension signs say the same thing?

Dear Sirs
Ref PCN ?????
I was not parked partly or wholly within a parking bay, suspended or otherwise.
The only suspension sign is for an ex disabled bay which I was parked alongside but not within.
I am sure your CEO photos will confirm this, I attach my own anyway.
As this PCN was served in error, please confirm cancellation
Hugs and kisses.

If I have understood situation correctly, use the above, keep it simple and do not worry on things like the yellow line, that is not what the contravention is for.

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mylifestory
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 22:39
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I'll update tomorrow. Ive seen this guy doing the same to other parents on the same street for god knows why reasons. He hides in his car, obviously using it to target as many schools as possible as they all finish at different times. I know the school on the street where I live nearby has had 48 tickets so far this year, all of them outside the school! I think he's just trying to issue as many as possible to up his quota .....
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Abinet
post Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 23:32
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It could be a Scam there are a lot above it was in the news I think BBC

I think on “ Fake Britain” they were inventing places and charging ! and they copied Council forms to look genuine ,
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 11:33
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OP---I would go with what Dancing Dad suggests, I believe they should have used a Sect 14 Order too not a suspension sign.

The other thing that strikes me is the wording on the suspension sign given there are two disabled bays. It states the disabled bay opposite lamp post six, which to me is the other bay, not the one you parked in.

Mick

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stamfordman
post Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 11:48
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 11:33) *
The other thing that strikes me is the wording on the suspension sign given there are two disabled bays. It states the disabled bay opposite lamp post six, which to me is the other bay, not the one you parked in.


OP wasn't in either bay Mick - that's the key point.
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DancingDad
post Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 11:49
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QUOTE (Abinet @ Mon, 12 Feb 2018 - 23:32) *
It could be a Scam there are a lot above it was in the news I think BBC

I think on “ Fake Britain” they were inventing places and charging ! and they copied Council forms to look genuine ,


Please ????? !!!!!

Not saying it doesn't happen.
But this CEO seems to be hanging around same area, gone to the extent of fabricating Suspension signs, using very believable council PCNs and not done a runner.
OP
Treat this as genuine, if you are panicked at all by Abinet's comment, phone council and check or check online on council website.

And challenge, as certain as I can be, you will never pay a penny on this one.

As an aside, doesn't mean you are flameproof on the next one, guy could have tried for the yellow line offence and that may be more difficult.
From what you say, council are obviously aware of parking issues around school run time and have tasked a CEO to patrol.

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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 12:02
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 11:48) *
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 11:33) *
The other thing that strikes me is the wording on the suspension sign given there are two disabled bays. It states the disabled bay opposite lamp post six, which to me is the other bay, not the one you parked in.


OP wasn't in either bay Mick - that's the key point.


Stamf ---I see what you mean but we have to be careful with the terminology since the contravention reads:- "Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space" (my bold). The Council need only emphasise the latter which could relate to a road, that's why I made reference to Sect 14. OP was not in the designated area, as they have described it, IMO.


Mick
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Incandescent
post Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 12:09
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I have to say that to me, the sign suspends all parking there for the purpose of placing a cabin on the ex-disabled space, not that the space only is suspended. If one looks at Photo 4 there is another sign but we cannot read the conditions on that one. However, it does appear the alleged contravention is wrong, because the OP is not in a bay, but against the yellow line.
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DancingDad
post Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 12:13
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QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 12:02) *
........Stamf ---I see what you mean but we have to be careful with the terminology since the contravention reads:- "Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space" (my bold). The Council need only emphasise the latter which could relate to a road, that's why I made reference to Sect 14. OP was not in the designated area, as they have described it, IMO.


Mick


I was thinking on that when I penned my draft.
But the suspension sign doesn't specify anything except "Ex Disabled Bay" and location.
To me that can only be interpreted as parking being suspended within that bay.
To include further, they would need a more inclusive description that included the yellow lined section.... "End of road between Disabled Bays" or similar.

TBH, with the wording only seeming to state a reason but no location except as part of that reason, it's even debatable what has been suspended, if anything.
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 12:37
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 12:13) *
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 12:02) *
........Stamf ---I see what you mean but we have to be careful with the terminology since the contravention reads:- "Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space" (my bold). The Council need only emphasise the latter which could relate to a road, that's why I made reference to Sect 14. OP was not in the designated area, as they have described it, IMO.


Mick


I was thinking on that when I penned my draft.
But the suspension sign doesn't specify anything except "Ex Disabled Bay" and location.
To me that can only be interpreted as parking being suspended within that bay.
To include further, they would need a more inclusive description that included the yellow lined section.... "End of road between Disabled Bays" or similar.

TBH, with the wording only seeming to state a reason but no location except as part of that reason, it's even debatable what has been suspended, if anything.



+1

a local would/might know but how would I know it was an EX bay

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4442292,-...3312!8i6656
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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 13:03
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There are two suspension signs and we have only seen what's on the one by the wall. We need to see what is written on the one beside the chain link fence.

Maybe the CEO's photos might help.

Mick
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stamfordman
post Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 13:20
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I've checked the CEO's pics and they rely on the sign we've seen. Rest are pics of car.





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cp8759
post Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 19:18
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 12:13) *
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Tue, 13 Feb 2018 - 12:02) *
........Stamf ---I see what you mean but we have to be careful with the terminology since the contravention reads:- "Parked wholly or partly in a suspended bay or space" (my bold). The Council need only emphasise the latter which could relate to a road, that's why I made reference to Sect 14. OP was not in the designated area, as they have described it, IMO.


Mick


I was thinking on that when I penned my draft.
But the suspension sign doesn't specify anything except "Ex Disabled Bay" and location.
To me that can only be interpreted as parking being suspended within that bay.
To include further, they would need a more inclusive description that included the yellow lined section.... "End of road between Disabled Bays" or similar.

TBH, with the wording only seeming to state a reason but no location except as part of that reason, it's even debatable what has been suspended, if anything.

+1, OP was not parked in any bay so it's unusually clear cut.


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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mylifestory
post Wed, 14 Feb 2018 - 22:09
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Thank you all!! particularly DancingDad for the quick sumup which has been sent off together with my own pics.

The other sign is the same word for word, except 'portable cabin' is replaced by 'loo.' So they both refer to the space opposite lamp 6.

I don't know if you can tell by the google link above but the space on the right of that pic is an ex disabled space from a couple of years ago. I am local so I know. God knows why they moved it to the space on the right. That is an ex disabled space but maybe the one on the left is too now its been suspended ....

Knowing wandsworth council this will be a deliberately vague trap they assume busy mums will just pay up but they are very wrong! Ive never in 4 years at the school seen a parking attendant anywhere near it (except for the previous day), the mums park unusually well and theres hardly ever any reason theyd deserve a ticket. I know some other areas around the borough which are plants too, their permanent cash cows ....

His pics make it look like im in that bay (kind of) but mine show im clearly not.

I don't know how he did all this all in 1 minute as I really was out of the car that long but thinking about it, he was hiding in his car a few feet away and had it all written out while I was still in the car - all obvious now!!

I'll see next week if they've actually put any cabin etc on the spaces ....
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