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Not displaying a permit (83).
zarjazz
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 12:09
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Afternoon all.

A work colleague has received a PCN in a council car park for not displaying their permit.

An informal appeal , including a photo of his permit with VRM on, was rejected.

He is awaiting the NTO to enter a formal appeal.

Now this was in the same car park as dazzler72's thread;

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...mp;hl=dazzler72

and his informal appeal was accepted!

In that thread Mad Mick V spotted that the Principal order does not seem to state a need to display a permit...

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...nymede/RY10.pdf

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/a...ority=Runnymede

So is it just a case of quoting the order in the formal appeal when he receives the NTO?







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Attached File  LibraryPCN.pdf ( 109.66K ) Number of downloads: 16
 
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post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 12:09
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cp8759
post Tue, 15 May 2018 - 16:59
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If the order hasn't been amended since the it seems like a winner.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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hcandersen
post Wed, 16 May 2018 - 06:49
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And was a permit on display? And is this visible in the council's photos? And was the discount re-offered in the council's rejection (NB. do not delete dates, they're crucial in this process)?

The whole PCN, exclude only personal info;
The challenge and council's reply;
Their photos pl.
A photo of the noticeboard which contains the conditions of use of the car park.
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zarjazz
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 12:06
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The permit in the picture is the previous one. The car has a valid current one with VRM on. It was not on display as an oversight...

In the TRO , some car parks should have permits issued and some season tickets. From what i can make out, the council should be issuing season tickets for this car park and not permits. Permits for this car park are for residents or members of the health club. My colleague is neither. Our employer supplies them to employees.
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peterguk
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 14:00
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Permit expired 16/04/2018

Contravention date 27/04/2016

wacko.gif


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zarjazz
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 14:05
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 15:00) *
Permit expired 16/04/2018

Contravention date 27/04/2016

wacko.gif


As stated in previous post, the picture is of an earlier permit.
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hcandersen
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 16:50
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So, no permit.

Then how can this contravention be correct?

A car with no P&D ( forget permit, non-display means nothing permitting parking was displayed).

So why in your case claim a permit was not displayed? The car was parked without payment of the parking charge.

I can only see the contravention as being permissible if there is an area allocated to permit holders only, then nothing on display could be correct.
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zarjazz
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 18:32
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 17:50) *
So, no permit.

Then how can this contravention be correct?

A car with no P&D ( forget permit, non-display means nothing permitting parking was displayed).

So why in your case claim a permit was not displayed? The car was parked without payment of the parking charge.

I can only see the contravention as being permissible if there is an area allocated to permit holders only, then nothing on display could be correct.


Bit confused...
Are you saying I shouldn't have called thread ' not displaying a permit'?
Which I can understand now as the PCN was issued for not 'paying and displaying'.

But the car has a valid paid for permit ,with VRM on it ,that was not on display.

There is no permit parking area in the car park.

And the TRO for this car park states only a 'season ticket' must be displayed.

So no contravention has occurred... Is that what the formal appeal will be?
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hcandersen
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 19:42
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Yes. The PCN is for the correct contravention, your thread title was not.

C'est la vie.

I cannot see any grounds for reps at present. Try discretion i.e. have a valid permit (or so he says, we've yet to see it. Why post an out of date permit, it adds nothing to the argument), I just forgot to display it that day. I don't need to pay to park as I have a permit, what I need to do is to always remember to display it.

( why not on permanent display? What happens to it when the driver goes home?)

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Thu, 17 May 2018 - 19:44
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zarjazz
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 21:09
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Apparently he doesn't want certain people seeing permit and knowing where he works....


He phoned the parking department on receiving the PCN and was told to provide a photo of his permit and it would be cancelled.
The rejection letter was the result...

The appeal to the NTO should be an apologetic,it won't happen again because I will stick my PAID for permit in windscreen type thing then?
Is there any point including the RTO schedule that doesn't state you have to show the permit?


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cp8759
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 14:00
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QUOTE (zarjazz @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 22:09) *
Is there any point including the RTO schedule that doesn't state you have to show the permit?

That is a technical point which I'd save for the tribunal to be honest.


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I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
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