Ticket for a space I already pay for Options

[Phaedra]

So I have received now two tickets for a space that I pay for in advance. It is a private carpark belonging to a flat block and I pay every quarter in full in advance and have receipts. There is a private parking company (part of the BPA) that requires permits visible. I got these tickets when my permit was on the armrest between the driver and passenger seats, it was very visible, I don't have tinted windows. When it's on the dashboard, it runs the risk of slipping into the large gap between the glass and the dash, or flying out the window in the wind.
My question is: is this enforceable? I have already paid for the space so the permit should not even be necessary. Even so - it *was* visible. I think I have a good argument if this goes to court - there is no cost to the landowner whatsoever as it is my permenant rented space.

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[Hellfire8]

Of course it isn't enforceable and easily beatable with a bit of leg work.

couple of questions.

Who do you pay the money to for the parking space? is it part of your lease for the flat? If you can find extracts of your lease referring to parking then that'll be good.

Who issued the ticket, name of the PPC?

[Phaedra]

It is a space that my company rents from the management company that runs the block of flats, it isn't connected to a flat. The PPC was Premeire Parking (I spell I wrong deliberately because I know they trawl these forums).

[kommando]

By 'my company' do you mean a company you control or work for. You need to see the contact between the management company (who are not the landowners) and your company, if it does not require the permit to be displayed then the ticket means nothing, if it says on display but does not specify where again you are in the clear. Even then you will see them off at POPLA and cost them £27, after the 3 or 4th win they will add you to a white list unless they want to go bankrupt.

[Hellfire8]

Are you the registered keeper of the Vehicle? this is important on how you will act on this (ie wait or act immediately)

PS. you won't have to pay a penny, PP are easy to walk over.

[Phaedra]

I am the registered keeper.

[Phaedra]

So I thought the way to go might be to appeal both tickets, stating that the permit was visible and thus on display (I have a photo of it visible from outside the car) and also say that the space is paid in advance, thus there is no loss to the landowner as I have paid already. If anything, they should have my car registration down as paid.

[Hellfire8]

So I thought the way to go might be to appeal both tickets, stating that the permit was visible and thus on display (I have a photo of it visible from outside the car) and also say that the space is paid in advance, thus there is no loss to the landowner as I have paid already. If anything, they should have my car registration down as paid.

Well as you're the registered keeper, the first thing to do is SIT and wait.......

Once you have the "Notice to Keeper" come back here as that opens up further avenues for arguments and makes it a bit easier. also NEVER tell them who the driver is. Refer to the driver in the third person, They did this, They did that

[kommando]

As you are the RK you wait for the notice to keeper, appealing now means they assume you were the driver, they also make mistakes issuing the NTK so it easier to win.

[Phaedra]

Thank you!
Was worried I'd lost some pulling power by not appealing in the 14 day period, so I'm glad that I can relax that worry now!

[Hellfire8]

Thank you!
Was worried I'd lost some pulling power by not appealing in the 14 day period, so I'm glad that I can relax that worry now!

That's how they get away with it, They make people afraid, especially with the whole "pay now and it's only £60, after 28 days its £100"

It's pure and utter intimidation.

[Phaedra]

This is the letter i've received, presumably for the first ticket.

[Gan]

How many days after the ticket was this letter received ?

[The Slithy Tove]

The relationship between the various companies/entities still is not clear.

Who owns the parking space (probably not the management company)? Does it belong to one of the flats via its lease, or is it rented directly from the freeholder?
Who pays whom for the parking space?
What does the contract between those two parties say?
Who contracted Premier Parking (in this case, probably the management company)?

[cabbyman]

Dear sirs,

Ref xxxxx

I dispute the validity of your above invoice (which, incidentally, should account for VAT) and require that you cancel it forthwith. Should you be unwilling to do so, please forward the required POPLA code and I will get it cancelled there.

Love and kisses.

[hoohoo]

The notice is not compliant with POFA 2012 and therefore there is no keeper liability. You can therefore appeal on this basis (and others). Never say who the driver was, otherwise they can then pursue that person.

As they can correct their mistake up to day 56, now is not the time to say why it is not compliant in case they read this forum.

[Phaedra]

Gan - I received the letter on 7th August, the ticket was given on the 3rd July.

Slithy Tove - I am unsure who actually owns the car park that the space is in, though I think it is owned by the Management Company. Very few are still actually allocated to flats. I can find out for sure this week.
The company I work for gets invoiced quarterly, in advance by the Management Company for two spaces.
There is no contract that I have seen, again I can try to get it (if one exists) this week
The Management Company used to use it's own permits but must have had no way of enforcing unauthorised vehicles from parking so they employed PPark. We were not told this as much, I have just assumed that this is why they employed them. The Management Company take a very defensive 'nothing to do with us you know the rules' stance if even approached about PPark or tickets received.

Cabbyman - have you had any success with that letter template?

Hoohoo - I don't quite understand the next step with that advice, could you let me know:
Why the letter is not compliant?
Should I wait until after day 56 to appeal?
Should I appeal now?

Thank you so much for all this advice!

[cabbyman]

Success or no is irrelevant at this stage. They will refuse to cancel but they must provide a POPLA code.

You could be lucky and they will run will run scared of the hidden threat and cancel. If they don't, it costs them £27 + VAT to be told to cancel it by POPLA.

You will, of course, have read various topics on the forum by now and will be fully cognisant of how good a friend POPLA will be with the right arguments.

[hoohoo]

The next step is to appeal on any grounds. You have 28 days from the date on their letter. I would wait until 21 August, which means you are in plenty of time. Get a screenshot/saved email/proof of postage depending on how you appeal.

Then when they reject your appeal wait until day 56 from the parking event (28 aug by my calculation) to appeal to POPLA. I don't want to say why the letter is not compliant on an open forum, but hopefully some of the other regulars can vouch for this.


Sample first appeal

I wish to appeal the charge as keeper on the basis that you do not have authority to issue this charge and no contravention occurred. A valid permit was displayed in the vehicle at the time.


That should be enough. Parking companies always reject appeals on the basis of legal points anyway so there is no point in writing war and peace, and every chance of giving away more than you wanted to.

[Phaedra]

Many thanks for that,
I have written to Popla before and they rejected the letter as it was 'to far away from the ticket issue date' what exactly is this time limit?
Will the 28th August still be within it?