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Appeal made, not accepted what should I do now?
&roid
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 14:24
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I received a PCN last month, and, after reading advice on here, I appealed. I sent a very short, one sentence appeal say that the charge was punitive and unenforceable and asking them to cancel it or send me a POPLA code. They have just responded with this letter, what should I do now? Should I confirm to them or tell them where to go?

EDIT - pics removed on advice

Cheers

This post has been edited by &roid: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 21:10
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post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 14:24
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Chippy365
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 14:28
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Don't tell them whether you were the driver or not.

Have they sent you a NtK.
I'd tell them that you are not legally obliged to disclose the driver details and should they wish to pursue the Keeper they can, and therefore accept the representiations you made.
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The Slithy Tove
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 14:37
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They seem to have forgotten option #4: Appeal to POPLA
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psimmons200
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 14:42
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What was the first you heard about this?

Notice to Driver - i.e. a windscreen ticket (and if so, did you wait for the notice to keeper to come in the post?)

or

Notice to Keeper - i.e. a letter in the post to the RK

This post has been edited by psimmons200: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 14:43
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instrumentsofjoy
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 15:07
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QUOTE (&roid @ Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 15:24) *
I received a PCN last month, and, after reading advice on here, I appealed. I sent a very short, one sentence appeal say that the charge was punitive and unenforceable and asking them to cancel it or send me a POPLA code. They have just responded with this letter, what should I do now? Should I confirm to them or tell them where to go?


I have a similar letter (though there were others in between).

I also sent a soft appeal asking them for a POPLA code and they also wrote to me saying "they were unable to process [...] representations....."

My case is slightly different - but I then banged in a letter to the DVLA pointing out that they have denied me a POPLA appeal and quoting the POPLA website

Anyone can appeal such a parking charge notice providing they follow the process below. If you want someone to appeal on your behalf, such as a family member or friend, they can do so but there can only be one appeal for any one parking charge notice.

Provided you made representations to the operator who issued the parking charge notice and these were rejected, you have 28 days to appeal against the operator’s decision. If you do appeal to POPLA, which is independent of both the operator and the BPA, an impartial Assessor will consider your case.


You can read my stuff here.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t78361.html

The person who is dealing with my complaint is

Elizabeth Symons Elizabeth.Symons@dvla.gsi.gov.uk
Data Customer Compliance & Assurance Manager
Data Sharing Team | C1East | DVLA | Swansea | SA99 1DY
Twitter: @dvlagovuk

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cabbyman
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 15:18
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My idea, subject to comments of the more knowledgeable on here:

They have failed to reply in the correct manner to your appeal, therefore, they have not replied. They have X days to accept your appeal OR provide a POPLA code [Can someone substitute the ' X ' please; I can't find it!]. After that period, write back to them and say 'as you failed to provide a POPLA code, this matter is now closed.'


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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The Rookie
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 15:20
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x=35


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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&roid
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 15:21
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Thanks for all the quick responses guys.

QUOTE (psimmons200 @ Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 15:42) *
What was the first you heard about this?

Notice to Driver - i.e. a windscreen ticket (and if so, did you wait for the notice to keeper to come in the post?)

or

Notice to Keeper - i.e. a letter in the post to the RK


It was a Notice to Keeper in the post from their ANPR cameras, that's the only thing I've had from them.
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ManxRed
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 15:37
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How many days were there between the incident and you receiving the NtK?


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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&roid
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 15:43
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QUOTE (ManxRed @ Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 16:37) *
How many days were there between the incident and you receiving the NtK?


10 days
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dp7
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 15:48
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I do like Option 2. It doesn't say that you actually have to tell Excel the name of the driver, simply that you must notify the driver that they'll need to appeal biggrin.gif
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instrumentsofjoy
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 16:32
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Simply an attempt to get the name of the driver. Now why would they want to do that?
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Jlc
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 16:43
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Point out BPA Ltd CoP:

QUOTE
22.12 If you reject a challenge you must:
• tell the driver how to make an appeal to POPLA. This
includes providing a template ‘notice of appeal’ form, or
a link to the appropriate website for lodging an appeal
and the 10-digit verification code.


Some PPC's seem to think that the RK can't appeal, probably because of the 'driver' wording in the above taking very literally. But:

QUOTE
22.14 Drivers and keepers may appeal against a parking charge to POPLA.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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psimmons200
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 16:43
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QUOTE (&roid @ Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 16:21) *
Thanks for all the quick responses guys.

QUOTE (psimmons200 @ Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 15:42) *
What was the first you heard about this?

Notice to Driver - i.e. a windscreen ticket (and if so, did you wait for the notice to keeper to come in the post?)

or

Notice to Keeper - i.e. a letter in the post to the RK


It was a Notice to Keeper in the post from their ANPR cameras, that's the only thing I've had from them.


Perfect, it would just muddy the waters if the RK responded to a 'Notice to Driver' as the RK rather than as the driver. These clowns need a slap as they are trying to fetter the RK's right to appeal a charge wearing 'his RK hat' rather than his 'driver hat'.

BPA Code of Practice
22.1 Under the Code you must have procedures for dealing fairly, efficiently and promptly with complaints, challenges or appeals. The procedures must give drivers and keepers the chance to challenge a parking charge notice.

BPA Code of Practice 22.4
If a driver or keeper challenges a parking charge you must review the case and decide whether to:
• uphold the parking charge and explain why it was issued and should therefore be paid, or
• reduce or cancel the charge and take no further management action other than informing the driver.


BPA Code of Practice 22.8
"You must acknowledge or reply to the challenge within 14 days of receiving it. If at first you only acknowledge the challenge, you must accept or reject the challenge in writing within 35 days of receiving it. We may require you to show that you are keeping to these targets."

BPA Code of Practice 22.14
Drivers and keepers may appeal against a parking charge to POPLA.


So...

Dear Excel Parking

Re PCN #123456789

I refer to your letter of 27th June 2013, in response to my letter of appeal and challenge against the charge levied against me with the above reference. You will recall that I responded to the letter as the Registered Keeper

In line with the Part 22.1 of the BPA Approved Operator Scheme 'Code of Practice' in force at the time of the alleged parking event (from hereon the 'BPA AOS CoP'), you must have procedures which give both 'drivers and keepers the chance to challenge a parking notice'. Equally in line with Part 22.4 of the BPA AOS CoP, either the driver or keeper may challenge a parking charge. In line with Part 22.8 of the BPA AOS CoP, you must accept or reject the challenge within 35 days of receiving.

I note that your letter of 27th June 2013 neither formally accepted nor formally rejected my challenge or appeal. I understand I can expect such a formal decision with 35 days of your receipt of my initial appeal and look forward to receiving this. Please be aware of the right of keepers to appeal to POPLA, per Part 22.14 of the BPA AOS CoP, when communicating your final decision.

Yours faithfully

Registered Keeper.


This post has been edited by psimmons200: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 16:47
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Jlc
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 16:45
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Do a naive response that they seem to have forgotten to supply you a POPLA code. If you like add that the failure to provide one will be mean that your appeal is accepted.

EDIT: Or see the excellent fully monty in the previous post! wink.gif

IMHO they are deliberately not following the CoP and a complaint to the BPA Ltd should ensue.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 16:48


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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bama
post Mon, 1 Jul 2013 - 18:16
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another case ripe for a CPUTR complaint to TS
see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry805190


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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&roid
post Thu, 25 Jul 2013 - 07:47
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So, two weeks on from sending the excellent repsonse given by psimmons200 above, they've now written back and tried to make out that they have 35 days from that response, rather than the original appeal! (i.e. 35 days from 13th July, rather than the original letter sent on 10th June)

I'm guessing there's no way they can do this? Shall I just send them a letter pointing out that they are mistaken and have already missed the deadline? Is the 35 days working days or just consecutive calendar days?

cheers
&roid

This post has been edited by &roid: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 - 07:48
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dp7
post Thu, 25 Jul 2013 - 08:28
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QUOTE (&roid @ Thu, 25 Jul 2013 - 08:47) *
Is the 35 days working days or just consecutive calendar days?


CoP states when 'received from the motorist', and it's 35 calendar days. They've fudged this with the whole 'exceptional circumstances' clause in the latest CoP though.

I'm not sure 'exceptional circumstances' include running your company so badly that it takes a month to respond to a simple letter.
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 25 Jul 2013 - 11:45
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QUOTE (&roid @ Thu, 25 Jul 2013 - 08:47) *
So, two weeks on from sending the excellent repsonse given by psimmons200 above, they've now written back and tried to make out that they have 35 days from that response, rather than the original appeal! (i.e. 35 days from 13th July, rather than the original letter sent on 10th June)

I'm guessing there's no way they can do this? Shall I just send them a letter pointing out that they are mistaken and have already missed the deadline? Is the 35 days working days or just consecutive calendar days?

cheers
&roid





But have they written back with the POPLA code?! Once you get it, read links to examples of POPLA wording of appeals such as post #3 here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...45&posted=1

and post #15 here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...81&posted=1

which are my links as I post as Coupon-mad on MSE. Start preparing for POPLA and once you get your code show us the draft appeal you intend to send there.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Thu, 25 Jul 2013 - 11:45
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&roid
post Thu, 25 Jul 2013 - 16:40
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Thu, 25 Jul 2013 - 12:45) *
But have they written back with the POPLA code?! Once you get it, read links to examples of POPLA wording of appeals such as post #3 here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...45&posted=1

and post #15 here:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...81&posted=1

which are my links as I post as Coupon-mad on MSE. Start preparing for POPLA and once you get your code show us the draft appeal you intend to send there.


No, they've not even given me decision on my appeal yet, let alone a POPLA code. Since it's more than 35 days since my appeal letter have they now lost any right to proceed?
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