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FightBack Forums _ Speeding and other Criminal Offences _ Foreign driver speeding fine in UK - with a twist
Posted by: bourneagain Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 11:28
Post #1659704
I am a UK driver license holder but no longer resident in the UK. During a recent visit to the UK, I received a speeding fine while driving a relative's car in which I was fully insured.
The letter to RK is asking for the driver's details and address which I am happy to provide as the offender. The issue I face is my license had expired during the pandemic and I had not realised this until it came to this letter.
As my license number is the one I was insured with, I feel that is the appropriate detail to provide however I don't know the consequence of this. Would someone with knowledge of this particular situation be able to shed some light here?
Alternatively, I can supply the details of the driver's license that I hold in the country I currently reside in (non EU country) however I suspect that would not help as I the insurance doesn't have knowledge of it.
What would be the appropriate response to the letter and the consequences I face?
Thank you for your help.
Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 11:56
Post #1659708
No you haven't - think about it.
The issue I face is my license had expired during the pandemic and I had not realised this until it came to this letter.
Are you over 70? If not it almost certainly hasn't expired but you probably just need to renew your photocard (nothing to do with your licence to drive expiring). The expiry date is the date shown against each driving entitlement.
so 12-07-34 in this sample case
If my assumption is correct then nothing!
No, as the DVLA will still tie your identity to your licence. As for insurance, irrelevant, it's the person insured not the licence.
Get the RK to name the driver, you get a S172 request in your name, you confirm you were driving, further action then partly depends on how likely you are to return to the UK, alleged speed and limit. For a foreign domiciled driver, usually nothing.
Posted by: andy_foster Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 13:08
Post #1659722
For the sake of completeness, most insurance policies stipulate that the driver must either hold or have held and not been disqualified from holding a relevant licence.
Posted by: essexdriver Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 16:39
Post #1659763
Well the OP may have the same view of his licence here as some other non-eu expats. That is that their long held GB licence is suddenly no longer valid once they live abroad, they have the appropriate foreign licence but the GB one is defunct.
In the DVLA leaflet INS57P it says you must advise the DVLA of a change of address and that address must be one in GB. So presumably one could use the address of a relative who is in close contact.
However, the GOV:UK website says that to change your address on a licence (even to that relative's address) you must be a "resident of GB" which implies that an expat who only has a foreign residencial address cannot change the address on their GB licence and thus cannot satisfy the DVLA's requirements.
The question is a "resident of GB" the same as having "the right to reside in GB"? Not sure it is.
Posted by: bourneagain Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 09:15
Post #1659892
No you haven't - think about it.
The issue I face is my license had expired during the pandemic and I had not realised this until it came to this letter.
Are you over 70? If not it almost certainly hasn't expired but you probably just need to renew your photocard (nothing to do with your licence to drive expiring). The expiry date is the date shown against each driving entitlement.
so 12-07-34 in this sample case
If my assumption is correct then nothing!
No, as the DVLA will still tie your identity to your licence. As for insurance, irrelevant, it's the person insured not the licence.
Get the RK to name the driver, you get a S172 request in your name, you confirm you were driving, further action then partly depends on how likely you are to return to the UK, alleged speed and limit. For a foreign domiciled driver, usually nothing.
awesome, thanks! I did indeed seem to have photocard expiry confused with license expiry so that makes it simple enough. will send back as requested.
question though, the form also asks for a contact number, i'd rather not get a phonecall, do we know if the RK is required to provide a contact number?
In the DVLA leaflet INS57P it says you must advise the DVLA of a change of address and that address must be one in GB. So presumably one could use the address of a relative who is in close contact.
However, the GOV:UK website says that to change your address on a licence (even to that relative's address) you must be a "resident of GB" which implies that an expat who only has a foreign residencial address cannot change the address on their GB licence and thus cannot satisfy the DVLA's requirements.
The question is a "resident of GB" the same as having "the right to reside in GB"? Not sure it is.
interesting point this, I also have this (unconfirmed) view that my UK license is defunct. I didn't provide my new address so I wonder if this would complicate things when I return the form with my UK license but foreign address...
Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 10:18
Post #1659908
Your licence doesn't become defunct unless either dates out, removed for some reason or surrendered.
The Police can make reasonable requests as to what information you provide, most don't as for phone number (thus raising a question as to whether it's reasonable or not), I'd just leave it blank.
Posted by: essexdriver Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 10:35
Post #1659913
Ah but do you have to surrender your licence when you are no longer a GB resident? Not my view but my sons who is a Dubai resident. He tells me that that is the generally held view out there.
Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 11:40
Post #1659936
You do if exchanging it for a foreign licence, you don't if you are not or taking a new (relevant) test for that foreign licence.
So it depends on the country you are visiting, if you can drive on a UK licence there 'forever' then you still hold the UK licence, if you can 'exchange' it to that national licence then you surrender the UK one and AIUI then you don't have it. If you decide to take a test there then again you keep it.
Posted by: bourneagain Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 14:06
Post #1659979
So it depends on the country you are visiting, if you can drive on a UK licence there 'forever' then you still hold the UK licence, if you can 'exchange' it to that national licence then you surrender the UK one and AIUI then you don't have it. If you decide to take a test there then again you keep it.
thanks, makes sense!
Posted by: bourneagain Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 10:48
Post #1662509
spanner in the works...
My relative informed me when I was added to the UK insurance policy, he ticked the box that declared amongst other facts that I was a UK resident.
Sending the form back with my foreign residence address implies I am not a UK resident and therefore the insurance company should have been informed / insurance void.
Q1. Can the met request this information from the insurance company to ascertain if the policy was valid? i.e ask the for the policy details to figure out if the fact I live abroad was declared
Q2. IF yes, I suspect they would inform the insurance company who in turn would invalidate the policy going forward. Can the met at this point conclude the policy was not valid and therefore make the RK responsible?
Essentially what I am asking is how deep does the met dig in matters where a foreign driver is involved..
Posted by: The Rookie Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 11:11
Post #1662515
How will the insurance company ever find out you aren't a UK resident? Who's going to tell them/check?
Unless a driver does something to make them check, the Police do not routinely look at insurance status, even if they did they would just confirm you were insured without checking specifics on information provided. You would have to raise a LOT of red flags to get them that interested!
Even then it doesn't automatically void your (his) insurance.
Posted by: BluntyMcCrow2 Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 11:20
Post #1662521
My relative informed me when I was added to the UK insurance policy, he ticked the box that declared amongst other facts that I was a UK resident.
Sending the form back with my foreign residence address implies I am not a UK resident and therefore the insurance company should have been informed / insurance void.
Q1. Can the met request this information from the insurance company to ascertain if the policy was valid? i.e ask the for the policy details to figure out if the fact I live abroad was declared
Q2. IF yes, I suspect they would inform the insurance company who in turn would invalidate the policy going forward. Can the met at this point conclude the policy was not valid and therefore make the RK responsible?
Essentially what I am asking is how deep does the met dig in matters where a foreign driver is involved..
Q1) Yes they can request via a number of routes (direct from the insurers or via the MIB)
Q2) The insurance company will need to know why the Met are asking for the info (they can’t just request it with a reason - this may cause the insurers to ask the policy holder additional questions when they see why the information has been requested).
How deep will they dig? Only the Met can answer this.
Posted by: TMC Towcester Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 11:36
Post #1662537
As above, only the Met can sayfor sure, but certainly if you've provided an overseas 'service' address the ref flag will be raised. I suspect you weren't insured, particularly if you were added to a policy as a UK resident (misrepresentation).
The usual advice here is take the points and pay the fine promptly and 'politely' and most of the time 'other matters' don't surface.
Posted by: roythebus Wed, 15 Sep 2021 - 22:40
Post #1663008
Did your UK licence expire before or after the speeding incident? It my be that your application for a new licence has been delayed by the DVLA. If you haven't already sent it, I'd suggest you do ASAP, unless of course you also have a foreign licence you can use for driving abroad and here. 
Posted by: The Rookie Thu, 16 Sep 2021 - 04:53
Post #1663020
It’s not expired……
Posted by: roythebus Thu, 16 Sep 2021 - 22:38
Post #1663206
See post 1, this is what made me ask:
"The issue I face is my license had expired during the pandemic and I had not realised this until it came to this letter."
Was the offence before the pandemic shut down the world?
Posted by: andy_foster Thu, 16 Sep 2021 - 22:44
Post #1663208
If it was it would have timed out about a year ago.
Posted by: The Rookie Fri, 17 Sep 2021 - 05:00
Post #1663228
And if you read the responses below that it’s abundantly clear this was discussed and it hadn’t expired at all.
Posted by: bourneagain Mon, 20 Sep 2021 - 09:02
Post #1663814
thank you all, will go back with foreign address and UK license. will take the hit quietly
Posted by: bourneagain Wed, 16 Feb 2022 - 10:12
Post #1695877
Received a letter on this matter from the met claiming they could not reach the named driver at the address supplied by RK, threatening further actions against RK.
I note the address they quote is not the same as the one that was supplied by RK so not surprised it was returned to sender. RK intends to respond highlighting their error and nothing furhter. Question is, is the RK required to provide any further information such as evidences as laid out in this letter?
something like:
I note your letter stating the following
"This was returned by you nominating:
xyz
at
wrong address"
The assertion in the letter is incorrect, specifically the address does not match that which was provided in the named driver communication which was returned promptly, a copy of which is attached. 
Posted by: rosturra Wed, 16 Feb 2022 - 10:49
Post #1695886
If I were OP. I would be mortified that I had put the RK in this position,
(which includes S172; and permitting someone to drive uninsured with no valid licence...)
and would to do as much as possible to extradite RK from any jeopardy.
Why ever not?
The RK needs to reply again. Giving as much information about OP as possible. Using a covering letter if necessary.
Giving your name, address, phone number, email address, work address, work phone, PO box if travelling etc. Throw the book at it.
Keeping a copy of the form / letter.
Who was nominated according to the Police letter? Was it another foreign address?
As it looks like the police are now also looking for evidence that OP was insured, given a foreign address.
[Unless that's on the template letter]. So that's another can of worms...
Posted by: disgrunt Wed, 16 Feb 2022 - 11:23
Post #1695889
I suggest (as above) the RK goes back with all your details, pointing out the address the police quoted back was wrong. also they should include the insurance policy / cover note showing they had specifically added the OP to the insurance.
I don’t know your precise circumstances, but just because you are not currently living in the UK doesn’t mean you aren’t a resident and I doubt the police will look into it any further if the RK replies as above.
Also if I were you I’d be contacting the police/camera partnership directly and offering my details to ensure my friend wasn’t inconvenienced any more than they already have been.
Posted by: The Rookie Wed, 16 Feb 2022 - 11:43
Post #1695892
HE HAD A VALID LICENCE - How many times?
The RK was responsible for the insurance (which he may or may not have been) so hardly the OP's fault.
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