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[NIP Wizard] Car was parked and 20 miles away at time given in NIP
raspberry_lager
post Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 23:33
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - February 2019
Date of the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 10 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - 90 SOMESUCH ROAD, LEICESTER
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - The NIP says that my vehicle has been:

"Reported for the question of a prosecution to be considered ins respect of having driven dangerously on the road known as 90 SOMESUCH ROAD at about 14:50 on 12/02/19"

Thing is, at 14:50 on that date I was at work, and the car was a in a secured locked car park 20 miles form where this incident took place.

I can obviously prove where I was (witnesses, records of the work I carried out that day, I swipe in and out of the office on an electronic clock machine), but I stumped as to how to fill out the form. I have to give the details of the driver at the time of the offence. How do I fill that in? There doesn't seem to be box for "the car wasn't there".



NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - No
Do you know who was driving? - Yes
- Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Sat, 23 Feb 2019 23:33:55 +0000
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post Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 23:33
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peterguk
post Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 23:38
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Was your car at the location at anytime that day?


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raspberry_lager
post Sat, 23 Feb 2019 - 23:41
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It's possible, but it would have been around three hours after the time given in the letter. I hope that "around 14:50" couldn't actually mean "18:00"?
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Darkatmosphere
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 13:09
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Being factual and honest, as we have had these type of threads in the past where people have infact done something and denied this then come back with I road raged a little at someone, but not at the time specified on the ticket, Have you on that day at anytime, done anything that would give rise to this ticket?

I ask because these tickets are usually not doled out like sweets, and very rarely are issued with major errors, also note ticketing offices don't usually do tickets on the say so of the public either there's usually some level of evidence that they have seen tested to issue the ticket in the first place, especially if you have been reported via police forces dashcam submission services online.


The time being out could be merely admin error and in many cases don't usually affect the validity of the ticket.

S172 MUST be complied within 28 days, Although, I would be asking for the force ticketing office to help me out somewhat in Identifying the driver, before proceeding to the next stage. There should be an email address or a contact number on the letter to ask for photo's to assist with the Identification of the driver.





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There are a lot of laws in this country, but there isn't any justice.
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The Rookie
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 13:21
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You logical reply to the S172 request is that the car wasn’t at the location at the time mentioned. That the car was instead at Y location and that you had the keys and control of the car at that time.

That is all the information you’re required to give, but sometimes being a bit helpful can help you in the longer term so the option is to add that the car may have been at the location mentioned at some point in time.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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peterguk
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 13:29
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I would not expect a time error to give you any immunity to prosecution, but as TR says, you can play the game by simply answering their question.


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Fredd
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 13:57
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 13:21) *
You logical reply to the S172 request is that the car wasn’t at the location at the time mentioned. That the car was instead at Y location and that you had the keys and control of the car at that time.

That is all the information you’re required to give, but sometimes being a bit helpful can help you in the longer term so the option is to add that the car may have been at the location mentioned at some point in time.

Why would you want to be helpful to them in that way? If the s172 requirement has been met, and they have no admission as to who was driving the driver, and the OP isn't "helpful" enough to give them any prospect of serving a revised s172 demand in time (something which hasn't been mentioned for some reason) then they have no evidence for a successful prosecution, do they?


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Churchmouse
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 15:06
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 13:29) *
I would not expect a time error to give you any immunity to prosecution, but as TR says, you can play the game by simply answering their question.

Immunity from prosecution for what? The s.172 is a request for information, and it must be complied with. If the request contains "a time error", the request contains a time error--and must still be complied with. You cannot "comply" with a s.172 request by answering a question that was not asked.

It is useful to recall that a s.172 request doesn't necessarily require using the form provided by the police. So long as all of the requested information is provided, unequivocally, the information can be provided in a letter (stapled to the form and) returned to the police. This is often the best course of action when the tick boxes provided on the form do not allow an adequate or logical response.

At this point only the OP knows (or may know) if there was a "time error" or if there was a number plate error. If the former, it may be in his best interests to correct that error, or it may not. The answer could depend on what other evidence there was relating to the incident, and whether that might be attributable to the OP by other means. In any case, we are in no position to say. Personally, I would not volunteer any information that had not been specifically requested.

--Churchmouse
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andy_foster
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 19:47
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 13:29) *
I would not expect a time error to give you any immunity to prosecution, but as TR says, you can play the game by simply answering their question.


Don't know if you know anything about the law requiring a NIP to be served within 14 days for certain offences, but there is a requirement that it specify the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place. However, unlike the requirement to serve the NIP within 14 days, which is mandatory (except when any of the statutory exceptions apply), the required details are 'merely directory' - which means that if you crashed into a lorry at 11am and were fully aware that the NIP which stated 1pm related to the crash and simply had the time wrong, it would not invalidate the notice.


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Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
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peterguk
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 20:07
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 19:47) *
QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 13:29) *
I would not expect a time error to give you any immunity to prosecution, but as TR says, you can play the game by simply answering their question.


Don't know if you know anything about the law requiring a NIP to be served within 14 days for certain offences, but there is a requirement that it specify the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place. However, unlike the requirement to serve the NIP within 14 days, which is mandatory (except when any of the statutory exceptions apply), the required details are 'merely directory' - which means that if you crashed into a lorry at 11am and were fully aware that the NIP which stated 1pm related to the crash and simply had the time wrong, it would not invalidate the notice.


I agree with your point and is what i was trying to say.


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The Rookie
post Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 20:38
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Sun, 24 Feb 2019 - 19:47) *
which means that if you crashed into a lorry at 11am and were fully aware that the NIP which stated 1pm related to the crash and simply had the time wrong, it would not invalidate the notice.

While I get your point, if you crashed into a lorry (an accident occurred within the meaning of S2 RTOA) no NIP would be needed at all, so perhaps not the best example.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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