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French driving ban
i_should_coco
post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 19:05
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Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice/clarification.

At the end of July I was stopped for speeding in France. I was told my speed was recorded at 189km/h in a 130km/h limit, but it looks like there is some leeway applied and the they use 179km/h. My licence was confiscated at the roadside and I was told I could not drive in France for 72hrs and that a longer ban would follow (3-6 months), along with details of the further ban and fine. (I was not fined at the roadside.)

I've not received anything yet, so it's unclear exactly where I stand. i.e. if I am currently banned, or whether there needs to be a court case first? I'm not currently planning on driving in France in the near future, but do have a trip to Germany planned in September so will need my licence which they still have.

Can you advise the best option? Get a replacement licence from DVLA?

Thanks.

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post Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 19:05
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cp8759
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 00:16
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Get a replacement from DVLA in any event. A ban in France won't prevent you from driving in any other country.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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baroudeur
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 16:23
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QUOTE (i_should_coco @ Sun, 12 Aug 2018 - 20:05) *
Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice/clarification.

At the end of July I was stopped for speeding in France. I was told my speed was recorded at 189km/h in a 130km/h limit, but it looks like there is some leeway applied and the they use 179km/h. My licence was confiscated at the roadside and I was told I could not drive in France for 72hrs and that a longer ban would follow (3-6 months), along with details of the further ban and fine. (I was not fined at the roadside.)

I've not received anything yet, so it's unclear exactly where I stand. i.e. if I am currently banned, or whether there needs to be a court case first? I'm not currently planning on driving in France in the near future, but do have a trip to Germany planned in September so will need my licence which they still have.

Can you advise the best option? Get a replacement licence from DVLA?

Thanks.


Your case will be assessed. Exceeding the limit by more than 50kph is an "amende classe 5" penalty which could be up to €1500 and 6 points. There are other possible penalties, including a ban, but these would only directly affect someone resident in France. After your case is heard you will be sent paperwork with the decision.. A licence is normally held for 72 hours and you can apply for its return to the address on the paperwork you were given. A French 'ghost licence' will be set up in your name recording any penalties.
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i_should_coco
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 16:44
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Thanks. I have two numbers on the paperwork:

"enregistré à" (189) and "retenue" (179)

How would I go about applying for my licence return?

Does this mean I am not banned until the case is assessed?
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Irksome
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 20:06
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I'm astonished you were not fined at the roadside ... they are very fond of frogmarching you to the nearest cashpoint! That you were not fined at the roadside suggests to me that you are getting done for the 189, not the 179 ... that as stated above is a class 5 penalty, and there is not AF (fixed penalty) for class 5, which explains why they didn't take you down to the cashpoint!


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PePiPoo will likely close in October due to issues beyond the control of any contributor to this forum.

You are encouraged to seek advice at https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/ where the vast majority of the experts here have moved over to already.
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i_should_coco
post Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 20:11
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That's what I'm worried about. They did indicate that it would be the lower speed that was actually what I was prosecuted for, but who knows. sad.gif
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i_should_coco
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 08:13
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Went to the DVLA website to get a replacement licence, and it asks if I an banned in any other country. As I've not received anything stating that I am, am I ok answering no?
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ConfusedDaze
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 14:30
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I thought the ghost licenses in France and Spain were only for residents at this point in time?


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Thanks
CD
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baroudeur
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 19:20
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QUOTE (ConfusedDaze @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 15:30) *
I thought the ghost licenses in France and Spain were only for residents at this point in time?


The whole point of ghost licences is that they record offences committed by non-residents in order that any further offences take the earlier ones into account.


QUOTE (i_should_coco @ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 21:11) *
That's what I'm worried about. They did indicate that it would be the lower speed that was actually what I was prosecuted for, but who knows. sad.gif



Speeding in France is calculated on the basis of a magin of error and the recorded speed is reduced by 5 kph up to 100 kph and by 6 kph above 100 kph.

This explains it Tolérance et vitesse retinue
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Steve_999
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 19:43
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 20:20) *
. . . .

The whole point of ghost licences is that they record offences committed by non-residents in order that any further offences take the earlier ones into account.

. . . .


Or offences by a resident of that country who has no license.
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i_should_coco
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 20:47
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 20:20) *
QUOTE (i_should_coco @ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 21:11) *
That's what I'm worried about. They did indicate that it would be the lower speed that was actually what I was prosecuted for, but who knows. sad.gif



Speeding in France is calculated on the basis of a magin of error and the recorded speed is reduced by 5 kph up to 100 kph and by 6 kph above 100 kph.

This explains it Tolérance et vitesse retinue


Thanks for that, I had guessed that it was something like that, but wasn't sure. Your link seems to inidcate different tolerances for fixed vs moving radars, but that woluld seem to indicate a 13km/h tolerance for a moving radar. This was a stop by a car on a motorway, I'm not sure whatthe actual measurement method was, he showed me a table for the measured vs "retained" speed. From the way he was talking he suggsted that the lower speed (179km/h) was going to be used. wacko.gif
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Irksome
post Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 21:01
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But if it were a class 4 fine, you'd have been asked to pay €135 there and then ... thats the AF fine.


--------------------
PePiPoo will likely close in October due to issues beyond the control of any contributor to this forum.

You are encouraged to seek advice at https://www.ftla.uk/speeding-and-other-criminal-offences/ where the vast majority of the experts here have moved over to already.
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ConfusedDaze
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 23:07
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QUOTE (baroudeur @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 20:20) *
QUOTE (ConfusedDaze @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 15:30) *
I thought the ghost licenses in France and Spain were only for residents at this point in time?


The whole point of ghost licences is that they record offences committed by non-residents in order that any further offences take the earlier ones into account.


QUOTE (i_should_coco @ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 21:11) *
That's what I'm worried about. They did indicate that it would be the lower speed that was actually what I was prosecuted for, but who knows. sad.gif



Speeding in France is calculated on the basis of a magin of error and the recorded speed is reduced by 5 kph up to 100 kph and by 6 kph above 100 kph.

This explains it Tolérance et vitesse retinue


Sure I just didn't think they existed for UK drivers they don't in Spain and didn't until recently in France, is this a new thing?


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Thanks
CD
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cp8759
post Thu, 16 Aug 2018 - 23:19
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QUOTE (i_should_coco @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 09:13) *
Went to the DVLA website to get a replacement licence, and it asks if I an banned in any other country. As I've not received anything stating that I am, am I ok answering no?

Just answer honestly. Are you currently banned in any country?


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baroudeur
post Fri, 17 Aug 2018 - 15:10
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QUOTE (i_should_coco @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 21:47) *
QUOTE (baroudeur @ Tue, 14 Aug 2018 - 20:20) *
QUOTE (i_should_coco @ Mon, 13 Aug 2018 - 21:11) *
That's what I'm worried about. They did indicate that it would be the lower speed that was actually what I was prosecuted for, but who knows. sad.gif



Speeding in France is calculated on the basis of a magin of error and the recorded speed is reduced by 5 kph up to 100 kph and by 6 kph above 100 kph.

This explains it Tolérance et vitesse retinue


Thanks for that, I had guessed that it was something like that, but wasn't sure. Your link seems to inidcate different tolerances for fixed vs moving radars, but that woluld seem to indicate a 13km/h tolerance for a moving radar. This was a stop by a car on a motorway, I'm not sure whatthe actual measurement method was, he showed me a table for the measured vs "retained" speed. From the way he was talking he suggsted that the lower speed (179km/h) was going to be used. wacko.gif


Sorry I didn't realise it was a moving car that clocked you. A different margin of error of 10kph up to 100 kph and 10% over 100kph applies to those as this link explains. The site has lots of information on French speed limit enforcement.

radar in movement

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i_should_coco
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 12:58
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Time to update this....

I got a letter this morning and it seems I have to pay a 400 Euro fine + 31 Euro costs. No ban.

It's in French (no english) and a it's a bit tricky to understand the payment options (my French isn't great, so I'm using Google translate). No phone number to enquire at, either.

It mentions payment by credit card at a "caisse du comptable" - not sure what that is? Or cheque payable ot the public treasury (not sure how to get a Euro cheque).

The original payment instructions in French are:

par carte bancaire ou en espece, a la caisse du comptable. Dans ce cas, veuillez vous monir de la presente ordonnance

par cheque bancaire ou postal addresse directement au comptable du tresor (indique sur l'ordonnance) et libelle obligatoirement a l'ordre su <<tresor public >> dans ce cas, veulliez soit coller le talon situe en bas de votre ordonnance, soit rappele, sur cette lettre, toutes les mentions de ce talon

par mandat cash addresse directement au comptable du tresor indique sur l'ordonnance. dans ce cas, veuillez soit coller le talon situe en bas de votre ordonnace sur la partie correspondante, soit y rappeler les mentions de ce talon



Any advice welcome!

Thanks.
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Redivi
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 13:14
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It doesn't look a bad deal to close the subject

What's the situation with the DVLA ?

If it's issued a new licence, you'll have to destroy the old one when the French police return it
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i_should_coco
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 13:17
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 14:14) *
It doesn't look a bad deal to close the subject

What's the situation with the DVLA ?

If it's issued a new licence, you'll have to destroy the old one when the French police return it


I didn't get a replacement in the end.
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baroudeur
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 17:25
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QUOTE (i_should_coco @ Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 13:17) *
QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 14:14) *
It doesn't look a bad deal to close the subject

What's the situation with the DVLA ?

If it's issued a new licence, you'll have to destroy the old one when the French police return it


I didn't get a replacement in the end.


So, my assessment of the situation in post 3 was correct.

Did you get your licence returned by the French Authorities? I suspect not as normally it must be collected in person.

Do you intend to pay? Whilst not condoning non-payment of penalties it is unlikely that anything will happen other than, perhaps, a few letters chasing the debt. However, returning to France and being stopped risks the outstanding penalty being noted with serious consequences.

Payment from sterling accounts isn't made easy by the methods listed .

Edit: Check with DVLA and see if your licence was sent to them.

This post has been edited by baroudeur: Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 17:26
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KH_
post Tue, 4 Dec 2018 - 18:25
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I seem to recall from another poster, quite a while ago admittedly, that letters should also be in the language of the recipient. Is that correct?
If the entirety of the letter is french then there may be something that could be done.

Others will know better than me, I don't have the best memory...
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