PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

SJPN Issued for NIP sent during house move
dts2018
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 13:37
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 12 Jan 2018
Member No.: 95,926



A quick timeline:
May: Move out of former address
July 9th - Offence observed by static police van
July 12th - NIP sent to former address
July 13th - DVLA issue new logbook to current address
August 3rd - NIP reminder sent to former address
January 4th - Single Justice Procedure Notice sent to current address

Hi folks,
I have recently recieved a SJPN to my current address for two charges; speeding (37 in 30) and failure to give information. Included is the attached plea entry forms & statement of means forms.

I had moved home in May and once I was happy in the knowledge that my new home would be permanent, I sent for a new logbook via snail mail in a local postbox. This pretty much coincides with the time of the offence. What I have observed is that the address would have been updated before the final reminder was typed up and sent...

I'm happy (though unaware of at the time) to admit the speeding charge but am extremely panicked about the second charge which, being a new driver, would see my licence disqualified and create some rather large problems for me in my ability to work.

What would the fine members of pepipoo recommend I do in this case?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 10)
Advertisement
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 13:37
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Jlc
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 13:43
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,260
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (dts2018 @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 13:37) *
What I have observed is that the address would have been updated before the final reminder was typed up and sent...

Once the DVLA (PNC) is accessed for the keeper's address they do not access it again. (This meets the necessary requirements)

Your situation is fairly common and there are many threads on here.

However, it will be a bit of pain to resolve as you will have to attend court. It cannot be reliably resolved via SJP (postal).

You either simply ask for the matter to be referred to a normal court hearing or plead not guilty to both offences.

At court then you see the prosecutor in advance (if possible) of your case and offer to plead guilty to the speeding offence if they drop the more serious s172 (fail to furnish) charge. This should be routine to the court.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 13:44
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,542
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



This is a fairly routine scenario. Firstly plead not guilty to all charges, you will then be sent a summons to attend a normal Magistrates' Court hearing. Before the hearing, ask the usher to point out the prosecutor who is dealing with traffic matters, and offer to plead guilty to speeding in exchange for the s172 charge being dropped (The CPS will drop the failure to furnish charge as it would not be in the public interest to prosecute).

As it is arguable that you didn't get a fixed penalty notice due to "administrative difficulties", you could invite the court to sentence you at the fixed penalty level.

The sentencing council guidelines (https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explan...s-for-disorder/) provide that "where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances", you might want to draw the attention of the court to this.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 13:47


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dts2018
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 13:52
Post #4


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 12 Jan 2018
Member No.: 95,926



Thanks for the prompt replies folks,

When it comes to pleading not guilty to both, is that not to been seen as attempting to deceive on my part considering the evidence is pretty much insurmountable? If I'm guilty on the charge, why should I please "not guilty"? Seems a bit weird to be bartering like I'm buying some veg from a market stall with something that could essentially have me lose my job if it goes wrong.

I'm concerned that I'll turn up on the day, not be able to see prosecutor for whatever reason (he's busy in court) and then stand before the judge with egg on my face.

This post has been edited by dts2018: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 13:54
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
StationCat
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 14:11
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 287
Joined: 13 Nov 2013
From: UK
Member No.: 66,671



In general the CPS want to prosecute the underlying offence i.e. the speeding. If it was you driving and there are no complications, they will generally drop the 172 charge in favour of a guilty plea for the speeding. This happens frequently and is seen as quite normal for the circumstances. Make sure you arrive in plenty of time on the day.


--------------------
"Truth is ever to be found in the simplicity, and not in the multiplicity and confusion of things" - Isaac Newton
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 14:20
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,260
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (dts2018 @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 13:52) *
When it comes to pleading not guilty to both, is that not to been seen as attempting to deceive on my part considering the evidence is pretty much insurmountable? If I'm guilty on the charge, why should I please "not guilty"? Seems a bit weird to be bartering like I'm buying some veg from a market stall with something that could essentially have me lose my job if it goes wrong.

If you decide to plead guilty to the speeding [prior to dropping the s172] (where they have no evidence to convict you) then they can thank you kindly and then go to trial on the s172 charge for which your defence is not looking good as you contributed to the failure it appears. Result 9 points...

This post has been edited by Jlc: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 14:22


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dts2018
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 14:23
Post #7


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 12 Jan 2018
Member No.: 95,926



Also, I forgot to mention that the charge sheet has stated the wrong area but right road, in fact, it's written in quite a broken manner. "on 9/07/2017 at CAERPHILLY drove a motor vehicle etc etc, namely *name and number of road*"

The road is not in Caerphilly, it's elsewhere.

The witness statement on the police's part only states the road name and not the area.

Is this something that I can use or will it be seen as a petty attempt to dodge the charge?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 14:29
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,260
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (dts2018 @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 14:23) *
Is this something that I can use or will it be seen as a petty attempt to dodge the charge?

Given you are on the back foot and want to resolve this with the best outcome then it's best to stick to the simple 'plea bargain'. Attempting any such challenge will almost certainly backfire on you. (And no response was received to the s172 request anyway...)

Have a read of this thread. (Slightly different scenario but has real court feedback)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
dts2018
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 14:41
Post #9


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 12 Jan 2018
Member No.: 95,926



What happens if I'm unable to talk to the prosecutor ahead of time?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jlc
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 14:55
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,260
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
From: With Mickey
Member No.: 49,223



QUOTE (dts2018 @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 14:41) *
What happens if I'm unable to talk to the prosecutor ahead of time?

The process should be familiar to the bench too - some courts have been known to assist too.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 15:11
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,542
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (dts2018 @ Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 14:41) *
What happens if I'm unable to talk to the prosecutor ahead of time?

This is unlikely, prosecutors often turn up early and spend quite a significant amount of time waiting around. Just make sure you turn up ahead of the hearing (hearings often start a few minutes late anyway) and you should be fine.
Worse case scenario, you can mention in open court that you were hoping to have the s172 charge dropped in exchange for a guilty plea, neither the magistrates nor the prosecutor will have any reason to object.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Fri, 12 Jan 2018 - 15:11


--------------------
I am not on the "motorists's side", nor am I on the "police/CPS/council's" side, I am simply in favour of the rule of law.
No, I am not a lawyer.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Wednesday, 14th November 2018 - 10:00
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.